EVs could make renewable energy practical

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EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby aardvark_admin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:13 am

This column is archived at: http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2017/0727.shtml

With many countries relying on fossil fuels for the bulk of their electricity generation and unable to transition solely to "intermittent renewables" such as wind, tidal or solar, could the creation of a distributed storage network composed of EVs all permanently connected to the grid when not actually in use, be a game-changer?

With such a huge amount of storage distributed around a country and more or less congruent to the population distribution (and demand), might the EV be an even greater step towards carbon neutrality than one might first think?

Have "the powers that be" even considered this as an option?
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby phord » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:35 am

The answer is power generated from Thorium nuclear reactors, as RodyAxn has point out in these forums.
There is enough to power the planet for 5000 years.

Non polluting as the by-product completely breaks down in 10 years.
The number of deaths from current nuclear power is only a tiny fraction of that from coal.

But unfortunately the Green movement has demonised every form of nuclear power.
It will never be implemented in my lifetime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTKl5X72NIc
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby phill » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:16 am

with upwards of 40,000 canal boats in regular use liquid fuel is not going anywhere in the uk for quite some time yet
sure conversion to electric will come but thats a different fish to commuter transport
as is long haul trucking

im seeing alcohol as the long term answer to both these ( in reev hybrid format )
something we should be developing a lot more of here ( starting decade's ago )
the humble bullrush being the highest return per hectare ( double the ltr's if you solve another problem at the same time .. the cleaning of sewerage before release (farm/domestic ))

as for power co's stealing your battery life .. not sure how that will turn out with the prevalence of inductive charging pads rather than fixed wiring for plugging in vehicles at home

im also not aware of any statements made by greens or greenpeace on thorium
the reason we went with the present reactors was for the bomb fuel output .. the main reason greens are against them
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby hagfish » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:32 am

Western governments work on a 90-day cycle. Within this, there are daily and weekly cycles, but if something isn't going to happen in the next 90 days, it's because it's parked. Occasionally, they look up at the 'bigger picture' (ie the time remaining until the next general election). Some early cultures (allegedly) counted, "one, two, three, many...". For governments, anything beyond three months out, is 'many'. What funds will they allocate and spend within the next three months toward effecting this change? My guess would be zero.

So when they say "'we'll do X by 2040", or "we'll do Y by 2050", what I hear "We are going to do precisely nothing".
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby aardvark_admin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:40 am

It is interesting to note that the pollution created by transportation is just a fraction of the pollution caused by agriculture -- yet, at least here in NZ, we seem happy to allow our farmers to dodge the AGW liabilities and continue damaging our waterways with virtual impunity.

Politicians are never ones to focus on the *real* problems though -- there's often no votes or photo-ops associated with "real problems".
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby roygbiv » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:54 am

I applaud UK government on stating a limit for ICE cars and use of renewable energy, it is a brave statement to make and hope that other countries will follow. It is a great follow on from the Volvo announcement which "sound the death knell of the internal combustion engine".
So the british have put time line on this of 23 years which is not unreasonable. But there are a number of challenges out there with renewable energy and options as such, this view is quite interesting.
My thoughts are that in 23 years with the advance of solar, wind, power storage technologies etc, all houses will be built to be fully self sufficient in terms of power usage including providing for the electric car. Solar panels, wind turbines in the garden or roof will charge up power units where one or several will be transferred to the electric car every day or so.
If the US can put a man on the moon as stated by JFK within a decade then we can do something far more beneficial to the planet in 23 years time.
Last edited by roygbiv on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby retroman33366 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:11 pm

When looking at the issues of powering EV's VS the so-called dirty internal combustion engine. From where I sit I don't have a properly thought out and calculated answer. The questions I put to a A Greeine when they said to me about EV's

What about total emissions of a EV vs Internal combustion from Manufacture to end of life? you know all the dirty processes to make the thing I got a big Huhhh?!?

When looking at so called energy savers like hydrogen generators run off the car battery and so forth as soon as you take in the concept of thermal dynamics in to the picture you soon see that the so called schemes may harm fuel consumption... The logical conclusion if you where using re-genitive breaking to power that stuff you would be better to use the power to charge a battery and supply an electric motor in to the drive-train.

This makes me wonder about how efficient an electric motor is I realise there are savings in simplified drive-train I know there are storage losses with current battery systems and they have an expected life then there efficiency just gets worse as time and use goes on.

Some numbers that make me cringe If you have a internal combustion engine I've heard the numbers of about 20% of the actual energy stored in the hydrocarbons get turned in to actual power at the crankshaft the rest is effectively heat loss made up of friction and heat that cant be used to generate power at the crankshaft. and the numbers just get worse by the time you take power losses from the transmission and so forth.

I wonder how many people actually think with an analytical mind?

When I think about the whole earth as a system and I know that wind is a function of the sun (daytime heat) and (night cooling) it makes me think that the wind is a natural function of the environment that has as much to do with keeping the earth at a constant temperature as well as a side effect what would happen if we harness too much energy from the wind the answer may be worse than the Global warming, climate change and Inert new buzzword here.

mind you if the sun had a small permanent blip in its output of energy in the form of heat we would all freeze or fry.
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby aardvark_admin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:38 pm

I'm all in favour of harnessing every joule of energy we can from that big, warm, friendly fusion generator that sits a safe distance away at the centre of our solar system. Sure beats the risks associated with other forms of energy generation here on rock number three.
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby phill » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:45 pm

retroman33366 wrote: The questions I put to a A Greeine when they said to me about EV's

What about total emissions of a EV vs Internal combustion from Manufacture to end of life? you know all the dirty processes to make the thing I got a big Huhhh?!?


This makes me wonder about how efficient an electric motor is I realise there are savings in simplified drive-train I know there are storage losses with current battery systems and they have an expected life then there efficiency just gets worse as time and use goes on.
.


not all ' spokesmen' for environmentalists are intelligent informed scientists
most are just m average who believe that
where we live and where we crap should be separated
we should try to leave this place habitable for future gens
we should look after whats here .. one day we may need it

many call themselves greenies to gain some legitimacy in environmental care
PETA members are a notable example .. where in reality they dont give a crap about the environment there whole life is dedicated to worshiping all animals destructive pests or not

some will also comment on stuff they are not aware of all the details of .. eg thorium because as far as most of the population know all reactors are unsafe and create untreatable waste that needs long term storage


the direct drive ( actually attached to whatever is holding the tire( hence 2 or 4 motors ) ) electric motor does away with large parts of the drive train function and its weight
gear box .. diffs / cv .. various bearings, 90 degree direction changers and the shaft ... about the only thing common is the stub axle

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rot ... motor.html
link to a 150cc equivalent motor weight 2.5kg 4 of those equals 600cc at the wheels 600cc will easily drive a light vehicle up hills at speed
Last edited by phill on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: EVs could make renewable energy practical

Postby Perry » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:55 pm

PETA being People Eating Tasty Animals, I presume? :twisted:
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