The end of cash?

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The end of cash?

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:27 am

This column is archived at: http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2017/0915.shtml

Whether we like it or not, chances are that pretty soon cash will be nothing more than a distant memory.

Yes, there are positives associated with a cashless society -- but there are also negatives.

What are your thoughts... will a cashless society be a move too far in respect to "big brother's" omnipresent surveillance of our activities?

And will banks capitalise on the immensely valuable store of data they will accumulate as the mine of customer information they will become?
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby Muscular Jam » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:50 am

aardvark_admin wrote:Banks and governments are quick to promote the benefits of a cashless society. Less risk of being robbed
Funny you should say that, because one of my elderly rellies got rung this week by a very helpful gentleman whose IT department had apparently detected a problem with their computer. I shot round there as soon as I could and uninstalled teamviewer, but not fast enough to stop most of their lifesavings mysteriously evaporating from their bank account.
aardvark_admin wrote:Now you might say "this is great, it will help solve crime" -- but at what cost?
Actually I would say that the theft of our privacy and freedom is the greater crime.
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby hagfish » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:11 pm

I think the 'what about a CME' argument is a bit of a red herring. If something knocks out our comms networks for a significant amount of time, having a mouldering roll of banknotes under the mattress will be pointless. One way or another, shops will be empty within a few days, and they won't be re-stocked.

I think the biggest impact will be the end of 'under the table' jobs. There's a vast amount of work that gets done 'for cash' that would not be worthwhile for either party once the government has had their taste - not to mention all the elf'n'safety compliance costs. Will that grey economic activity cease? Lots of fruit gets harvested, lots of people receive care, and lots of lawns get mowed for cash.

I expect many NZ families make ends meet by doing a few cashies along with the rest of their work. The powers that preside would prefer that these families comply with their tax obligations, and get the money back again by way of entitlements/benefits etc. Removing cash will remove friction from some areas, but add it to others. It will make us (even more) dependent on The System.

And until the gangs get their heads around Bitcoin, it will make it harder to buy tinnies.

Eventually, our AI overlord hive-mind will need to know about every transaction, so it can govern its pets effectively. Lie back, and think of the convenience.
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby BruceNZ » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:13 pm

aardvark_admin wrote:Yes, there are positives associated with a cashless society -- but there are also negatives.

Here's one you didn't mention. I do some budget advising and one of the things I advocate is paying for things with cash. There are multiple reasons for this: cash is tangible, when you hand it over it's gone and you can see it disappear. When it's gone you can't spend more (that you don't have), and therefore you prioritise your spending and don't go into credit card debt. Psychologically, you start to value money more - and the credit card copanies know this, which is why contactless payment is being pushed (there's less of an emotional involvement in the transaction, which means people spend more).
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby roygbiv » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:43 pm

BruceNZ wrote:Here's one you didn't mention. I do some budget advising and one of the things I advocate is paying for things with cash. There are multiple reasons for this: cash is tangible, when you hand it over it's gone and you can see it disappear. When it's gone you can't spend more (that you don't have), and therefore you prioritise your spending and don't go into credit card debt. Psychologically, you start to value money more - and the credit card copanies know this, which is why contactless payment is being pushed (there's less of an emotional involvement in the transaction, which means people spend more).


Absolutely spot on Mr B, I have had leaner times where I took out cash to last the week, gas for car, food for hungry mouths etc and could see my money diminish, when it was gone, it was gone. If only the good lady 'er indoors could do the same nowadays :D . Banks will always encourage cashless as both they and larger retail outlets will incur cash handling fee. The government will also encourage cashless, to reduce or make the black economy easier to track and more susceptible to IRD endeavours.
There will always be a need for cash I believe, but large amounts of will become increasingly easier to trace by the powers that be. As a contingency I will always carry some cash as EFTPOS may be only ever be 9x.xx% reliable whereas cash is always 100% when purchasing.
Last edited by roygbiv on Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby Kiwiiano » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:56 pm

Random thoughts.... Research has noted that marriages with single bank accounts are more vulnerable than those with his & hers accounts.

Don't do all your transactions through the same bank, dilute the value of your data. Admittedly by historical accident, I have accounts with three banks and as long as I don't transfer $$$ between them over the Net they should be unaware of each other.

How long after cash disappears will bartering reappear, or some form of exchange that the community agrees to and sod the Gummint? Of course they'll probably make it illegal pretty smartly and it is a bit tricky doing a lawn mow in exchange for a case of beer and a kilo of sausages, but it's difficult for the powers-that-be to trace a case of beer without ratting through your wheelie bin or requiring you to have liver function tests to prove you had drunk the beer. Mind you, nowadays an unopened packet of fags could become the equivalent of a useful bank note even for non-smokers.

Then again, back in the day I was in Veet Narm and the Yanks did all their day-to-day transactions with their own currency, Military script. Naturally it diffused out into the VN community but the bastards would periodically announce that the notes in circulation would be withdrawn in a week or so and replaced. Anyone fronting up with a suspiciously large sum, as in trying to help Mama-san down at the local Knock-Shoppe, would find himself negotiating with the Military Police. And sod the poor Vietnamese left holding the baby. Wouldn't put it past our Gummint to pull the same stunt if cash dwindles to mostly illegal activities.
~ Kiwiiano
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:33 pm

Kiwiiano wrote:Random thoughts.... Research has noted that marriages with single bank accounts are more vulnerable than those with his & hers accounts.

Don't do all your transactions through the same bank, dilute the value of your data. Admittedly by historical accident, I have accounts with three banks and as long as I don't transfer $$$ between them over the Net they should be unaware of each other.


Not so likely these days.

Back in the old days you could just rack up and open an account, no questions asked. Today you need an official form of ID (such as a driver's licence (didn't the government of the day say that your photo-ID drivers license will never be used as a form of ID card?) plus accounts from a power company with your name on it to prove your residential address -- and your IRD number. So through any of those, the data from those accounts could be cross-referenced.

I wonder how young people, without a license and who board rather than rent get on when trying to open a bank account? No government ID and no proof of where they reside. Hmmm....
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby Kiwiiano » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:45 pm

aardvark_admin wrote:I wonder how young people, without a license and who board rather than rent get on when trying to open a bank account? No government ID and no proof of where they reside. Hmmm....

It's one of the problems homeless people of any age face when trying to extricate themselves from the mire.
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby Weasel » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Ironically cheques are still commonly used in the US. And I'll say that they're quite convenient for one off transactions where a company needs give you some money - its simple for them to print a cheque for you, and most banks here have mobile banking apps that'll take a photo of it and the money is there the next day, and both parties have a nice paper record of it.

As for his and hers vs joint accounts, wife and I actually separated our accounts because its easier to manage, we split the financial responsibilities, divided the income appropriately between our accounts, and manage them which ever way we want to. Trying to combine everything just resulted in tensions because the one will obsess over how much is being spent and what its spent on more than the other. Not to sound stereo typical, I handle the mortgage, house maintenance, cars and their maintenance, petrol, pay the power, water bills etc, and she does the food buying, household consumables, and clothes buying. It seems to work very well. When it was all smashed together I would question every item going into the supermarket basket, every item of clothing I thought was unnecessary and I'm glad to be rid of it.
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Re: The end of cash?

Postby A Bradford » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:05 pm

A cashless society enables negative interest rates. A ‘dry run’ was done in Cyprus and college funds disappeared overnight. Japan made and attempt and shops sold out of safes. The black economy etc. is just marketing. It’s far more scary than anyone is saying.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/bu ... s/2595837/

http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/2016/0 ... 00494.html

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... take-hold/
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