From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

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From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby aardvark_admin » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:59 am

This column is archived at: http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2017/1010.shtml

Could a battery with roading tar as one of the key ingredients be the catalyst for a revolution in EV performance?

If not this technology then surely something else will come along at some stage and eliminate the negatives that still plague the perception of EVs and once that happens, how long do you think it will take before the last "smoker" is wheeled off our roads?

Given that the transition from smoker to EV is likely to be much faster than anyone has predicted, are we doing enough to sure-up our electricity generation and distribution infrastructure to allow for the massive changes that an all-EV fleet will create?
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby phill » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:27 am

put me down as a ( think up your own derogatory term )
as far as eon musk goes
i see someone that had a good idea that was at the right time and acted ( paypal )
it wasnt the first or even probably the best but it was the best advertised and promulgated
since then the ideas have been somewhere between good and laughable
the tesla as a future car is a no go and never has been
to me its a car that was always >10 years after it would have been a good idea
all his auto designs and ideas have past uses but limited today and even less use for the future
any amount of auto makers have better ideas and have implemented or are implementing them shortly
the tesla and the volt will become the race track hoon cars for those unable to find enough dino juice to run the more sort after historical models
maybe they are almost the equivalent of the modern racing buggy the amish use

the population has to change the way it does things because we have taken all the slack and safety nets away from the planets resources and conditions ( healthy environment )
we now have to begin to plan and live with the bottom line results of that greed and selfishness ( read stupidity )
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby par_annoyed » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:35 am

As soon as your EV has same range and similar or better performance (and about the same price), it's going to fly out the showroom door. Everyone will want one, and they will become the next big thing. Even if battery life is shorter, I'm sure many buyers will overlook this, after all that's a cost for later on...

Tesla may well have a problem if battery tech moves on, and they could easily get left behind. But charging all those EVs is going to take lots of 'leccy from somewhere, and it will have to be generated.
The I see the article about the solar challenge, which points out that solar panel efficiency has doubled since race started (1974-2017 I think). So 40 years to double efficiency of panels, by Moore's law (sic) we should take only 20 years to double it again....

But it still all raises the spectre of 'peak rare earth' and related manufacturing limits.... Who knows what will happen ? Ultralight type EV motorbikes ??
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby Stevesub » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:46 am

I would buy an EV so long as it was a similar price or cheaper to buy than a Dino car (around 2 to 3 years old), so long as it would do 500km driving on hilly NZ roads (I live in Northland a long way from anywhere with plenty of hills), so long as I could charge it from home from a standard plug, so long as it could be fast charged in under 15minutes at a fast charge station, so long as the overall cost of ownership is no more expensive that a Dino vehicle over a 10 year period, so long as I do not have to pay Road User Charges which is why I do not have a diesel vehicle anymore.

My stepson had a Tesla in the US and he has just moved back to NZ, he had trouble selling it at a reasonable price because the backside has dropped out of the prices for second hand ones, even those that are only a year old like his one. He got about half the advertised range out of it and it turned out to be useless for anything but a commute to work, even with their network of charging stations- from memory, advertised around 250mile range, he would get 100miles or a bit more).
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby hagfish » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:20 am

For me, the biggest savings won't be the fuel/energy or maintenance - it will be no longer paying for parking or insurance or financing. All that will be built into the fare. Other advantages will be reduced commuting times, the ability to have a drink in town after work, the ability to send the kids off places without having to drive them. I'll be able to dig up my driveway and plant tomatoes, and re-fit the garage as a granny flat. Not long, now.
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby Kiwiiano » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:56 pm

Why is everyone supposing Tesla will be rapidly overtaken by the ICE industrials? They have already demonstrated a reluctance to embrace the new technology (apart from Nissan, Renault, and a few others (tentatively)). Tesla have streaked ahead of them in producing cars that 100's of thousands of customers are prepared to plonk down $1000 deposit sight unseen or other SUV models that are dragging of Lamborghinis & Ferraris. Musk is also planning for autonomous EVs at substantially lower prices and running costs than ICEs. 200 moving parts b's 2000? And mileages over 500,000 with 1000000 in the crossbars.
All with a decades head start on the opposition with a willingness to cooperate with them in things like standardized chargers and infrastructures to ensure rapid acceptance.
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby Kiwiiano » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:19 pm

Stevesub wrote:My stepson had a Tesla in the US and he has just moved back to NZ, he had trouble selling it at a reasonable price because the backside has dropped out of the prices for second hand ones, even those that are only a year old like his one. He got about half the advertised range out of it and it turned out to be useless for anything but a commute to work, even with their network of charging stations- from memory, advertised around 250mile range, he would get 100miles or a bit more).

I'll check to see if those common complaints. I know that there was a lot of dissatisfaction with plug in hybrid models from other manufacturers, particularly from fleet owners complaining of bad petrol consumption figures. Turned out they had neglected to tell the drivers to plug them in overnight. Duhh!!
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby phill » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:51 pm

Kiwiiano wrote:Why is everyone supposing Tesla will be rapidly overtaken by the ICE industrials? They have already demonstrated a reluctance to embrace the new technology (apart from Nissan, Renault, and a few others (tentatively)). Tesla have streaked ahead of them in producing cars that 100's of thousands of customers are prepared to plonk down $1000 deposit sight unseen or other SUV models that are dragging of Lamborghinis & Ferraris. Musk is also planning for autonomous EVs at substantially lower prices and running costs than ICEs. 200 moving parts b's 2000? And mileages over 500,000 with 1000000 in the crossbars.
All with a decades head start on the opposition with a willingness to cooperate with them in things like standardized chargers and infrastructures to ensure rapid acceptance.


err cause his vehicles are just ice cars with electric motors and huge batteries

people will ' plonk ' down thousands on any sort of junk if the advertising is good and the fan boy club ( the giveaway ) is hyped enough

decades head start means nothing nowadays with so much being done by robots that just need more software to turn from painters to surgeons
... if your direction has been substantially the wrong one .. even less so

autonomous vehicles dont require much more than a few electronic bits some sensors and some actuators ( im even seeing a market in upgrading some of the manually driven models esp the better ( lighter ) electric ones )
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby ffirman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:07 pm

Stevesub wrote:I would buy an EV so long as it was a similar price or cheaper to buy than a Dino car (around 2 to 3 years old), so long as it would do 500km driving on hilly NZ roads (I live in Northland a long way from anywhere with plenty of hills), so long as I could charge it from home from a standard plug, so long as it could be fast charged in under 15minutes at a fast charge station, so long as the overall cost of ownership is no more expensive that a Dino vehicle over a 10 year period, so long as I do not have to pay Road User Charges which is why I do not have a diesel vehicle anymore.

My stepson had a Tesla in the US and he has just moved back to NZ, he had trouble selling it at a reasonable price because the backside has dropped out of the prices for second hand ones, even those that are only a year old like his one. He got about half the advertised range out of it and it turned out to be useless for anything but a commute to work, even with their network of charging stations- from memory, advertised around 250mile range, he would get 100miles or a bit more).



Do you drive 500km every day, which is why you would require that range? Or even once a week?

And you do know that with every litre of petrol, you are paying 58c in road user chargers. So if you car goes less than about 9km for each litre of petrol, you are paying more road user chargers than you would with a 3.5t diesel. About.. 6.2c/km, so a bit less than 10km for the 58 c in the 1 litre of petrol.
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Re: From the road, for the road (10 Oct, 2017)

Postby joeseph » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 pm

Whatever the road user charges are today, given any decrease in take by way of decreasing user-base, will be made up by way of new taxes or charges.
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