Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

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Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:41 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2018/0613.shtml

Is there really any point in restricting the sales of PE?

Aren't the P cooks getting their hands on the stuff anyway?

Does this perhaps not highlight the folly of treating drug abuse as a crime rather than an illness?

Why don't our law-makers learn from the experiences of other countries which have observed a marked reduction in the cost of drug abuse after legalising such substances and treating abusers as victims rather than criminals?

And please... do get a preemptive prescription for PE from your doctor next time you go, you'll be so pleased you did.
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby Hiro Protagonist » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:11 am

aardvark_admin wrote:Why don't our law-makers learn from the experiences of other countries which have observed a marked reduction in the cost of drug abuse after legalising such substances and treating abusers as victims rather than criminals?

They want us to respect the law.
Maybe they should pull finger and come up with some laws worthy of respect.

A good article here:
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/07-06-2018/stop-blaming-banned-drugs-for-the-devastation-caused-by-prohibition/
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby phill » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:26 am

the consequences of making drugs illegal are huge
just a few for reminders list
the attitude to law enforcers by those doing what they like doing without harming others .. slippery slope and once on it other things become easier
the simple fact of ... it doesnt work and never has .. it just placates a few of the noisier drums
the amount of people ( addicts ) who feel the only thing left to them is burglary and or sex work to support their addiction
it inflates the amount of people the law requires to be locked up .. a huge amount at a huge price for no change and little benefit .... take out those who are locked up directly or indirectly because of drug use / abuse and you have more than enough prison space available without continually building more

some people will always be criminals .. some people are forced into it by circumstance .. and some never will be ... at least give those that would prefer not to be a chance
drugs are a social issue and can only be addressed and the wider consequences to the community mitigated by treating it as such
prescriptions for addicts .. counselling .. progressing treatments to safer drugs and eventually drug free should be the goal for a civilised society

prove to me that locking more and more people up is working or has ever worked in any way other than making the problem worse and i will rethink my opinion
Last edited by phill on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby hagfish » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:54 am

In the USA, the 'War on Drugs' is a $50 billion/year industry. That makes for a powerful lobby. Over here, we have the likes of Serco who profit directly from the prison system, along with the legal system, the insurance industry etc who all rely on criminal(ised) behaviour in order to maintain their budgets and/or their profits. They're organised, and they have lots of political/financial clout. Plus all this money-go-round counts towards GDP.

Against these forces, are those who want to see drug (ab)use treated as a health issue, rather than a legal issue. If people can get high-quality drugs on prescription - and access to medical/mental support - it would de-fang the gangs, and likely have better outcomes for individuals, their families, and their communities. Ending prohibition would be a huge call for a first-term coalition - the Winnie-voting, 'tough-on-crime' curtain-twitchers still hold sway.
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby Muscular Jam » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:17 pm

Is PE available from GPs?
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby phill » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:21 pm

and the chances of the local pharmacy stocking it ?
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby Perry » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:48 pm

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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby dingram17 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:44 pm

If you do manage to get hold of some Meth, here's the recipie you need to convert it back to PE:
https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf

The reasoning:
The pharmacies require signatures and examination of government issued ID in order to purchase pseudoephedrine. Because the hours of availability of such pharmacies are often limited, it would be of great interest to have a simple synthesis of pseudoephedrine from reagents which can be more readily procured.

A quick search of several neighborhoods of the United States revealed that while pseudoephedrine is difficult to obtain, N-methylamphetamine can be procured at almost any time on short notice and in quantities sufficient for synthesis of useful amounts of the desired material.


And don't waste your money on Sudafed PE - phenylephrine just doesn't work.
https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(06)00633-6/fulltext
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Re: Ah... symptomatic relief! (13 Jun, 2018)

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:36 am

dingram17 wrote:If you do manage to get hold of some Meth, here's the recipie you need to convert it back to PE:
https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf

The reasoning:
The pharmacies require signatures and examination of government issued ID in order to purchase pseudoephedrine. Because the hours of availability of such pharmacies are often limited, it would be of great interest to have a simple synthesis of pseudoephedrine from reagents which can be more readily procured.

A quick search of several neighborhoods of the United States revealed that while pseudoephedrine is difficult to obtain, N-methylamphetamine can be procured at almost any time on short notice and in quantities sufficient for synthesis of useful amounts of the desired material.


And don't waste your money on Sudafed PE - phenylephrine just doesn't work.
https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(06)00633-6/fulltext



The old regime of requiring photo ID and restricting the amount you could buy in a single purchase did a pretty good job of cutting off that supply source. The criminals weren't buying it or getting runners to go to different pharmacies anymore. Instead they were breaking in after hours and stealing stuff or importing. But the new government wanted to make a headline about cracking down on P so took the easy option for getting that never mind the facts!

I recall at the time they did it one of the current affairs shows did an article showing how easy it was to get industrial quantities of pre-cursor chemicals. Bought from a factory in china a shipping container full of it. Shipped it to Fiji I think as it also had weak import controls on OTC meds/chemicals. Then either cook it there or break it down to smaller loads. On to smaller craft to ship in to NZ/Australia either hidden in other legitimate cargo or hidden in a yacht which can sail close to NZ to drop off somewhere nice and quiet. Then on to a port and clear customs/immigration.
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