The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Have your say on today's Aardvark Daily column

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby keyman26 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:49 pm

I've not done any personal research into this, but apparently sweden has got some kind of power generation from burning rubbish. they sift out metals, non-burnables, plastics... and burn the rest - make steam for turbines.
That could provide a small, but consistent amount of top to bridge gaps, and solve the overflowing rubbish dumps. Not sure how 'green' the smoke coming out of these power plants are though.

allegedly so successful, they are taking rubbish from other countries, and being paid for it, which sounds nice - NZ a bit far away from anyone make this viable I'd guess.

But then, they also have nuclear, which provides 80% of their power still (well, til 2017 according to the article I flicked over)
keyman26
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:52 am

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby Stevesub » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:05 pm

When I was at school back in the Dark Ages, we did an exercise. If every house in NZ was supplied free of charge with Solar hot water, the cost would be less than a large power station and save the similar amount of power that would be generated by that power station.

I can see in the not too far future solar panels everywhere with batteries. In our housing development in OZ, ALL NEW houses MUST HAVE solar panels and solar hot water (this is a developer requirement). Our panels are generating something like 20KWH plus each day, multiply that by 1000's of houses and what do you get. Our excess power is currently fed back to the grid but our system is now about 8 or 9 years old. If we lived in NZ full time, my roof would be covered in panels and there would be a big battery somewhere. However we are only there summers so that will not happen in the short term.

OZ has a problem in that all rivers that can generate electricity have been used and there are not many of them, the Pilbra with enormous tides is too far away from anywhere and they have coal reserves that are cheap to get at for thousands of years. We are paying 26c/KWH for coal produced peak electricity in Brisbane. Wind is not always there, plenty of sun, no geothermal that is worthwhile having.

You think that NZ has problems, OZ is coming up with hair brained schemes such as Hydro batteries where water is pumped high with excess energy, then released to generate power. A lot of outback places including small towns are still reliant on solar, wind and diesel as the distances are too great for power lines to be put in economically.
Stevesub
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby hagfish » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:12 pm

At midday on a good day, Germany's PV installations feed 20GW into their grid. That's more than twice NZ's entire electricity generating capacity, from a country that is (mostly) at higher latitudes than Stewart Island.

Whether we put solar panels on rooftops or install stream turbines under the sea, the hardest bit is energy storage. If someone can crack that, in a way that doens't require anything too ugly, expensive, complicated or carcinogenic, the generation part is relatively easy.

Actually the real hardest bit is getting anything done. Western democracies lo longer have the ability to execute large-scale projects, but I think smaller, distributed projects (ie rooftop PV) will likely give a better result anyway.
hagfish
 
Posts: 680
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:28 am

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby latewings » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Tidal forces are consistent, but do not fall at the same time each day so there may be a lull at peak times. So the supplement is wind, however if it's a calm day that option is useless. But if it's a calm day, then it's likely to be sunny. But if its a calm night then we use hydro, but if the lakes are empty we fall back to geothermal and carbon emitting generators until the tides turn.

Each option has it's own merits, and each has shortcomings, but those shortcomings tend not to overlap by any significant margin. Ergo all of the above would be my answer to the conundrum.
latewings
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:18 am

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby paulw » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:20 pm

keyman26 wrote:I've not done any personal research into this, but apparently sweden has got some kind of power generation from burning rubbish. they sift out metals, non-burnables, plastics... and burn the rest - make steam for turbines.
That could provide a small, but consistent amount of top to bridge gaps, and solve the overflowing rubbish dumps. Not sure how 'green' the smoke coming out of these power plants are though.

allegedly so successful, they are taking rubbish from other countries, and being paid for it, which sounds nice - NZ a bit far away from anyone make this viable I'd guess.

But then, they also have nuclear, which provides 80% of their power still (well, til 2017 according to the article I flicked over)

Burning rubbish was suggested for the Meremere power station but the greenies jumped up and down about it so the company who was going to do went to Australia and did the same thing successfully.

No point trying to get any power generation in this country as someone will object to it and they will be permanently outraged and offended on social media.
paulw
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 8:33 am

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:24 pm

paulw wrote:No point trying to get any power generation in this country as someone will object to it and they will be permanently outraged and offended on social media.

Hence my point that perhaps our efforts should be focused on power conservation and improved efficiencies rather than simply generating more power and wasting so damned much of it (as we do).
aardvark_admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3268
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby phill » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:05 pm

when you are relying on burning coal for your main energy source ... its not that much worse to burn rubbish for generation

when you dont use much coal its not a good idea at all
given we are trying to lower the carbon emissions at this time

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ake-sense/

a biased article but it gives a reasonable overview of the process and the problems

i see they are also claiming carbon credits as the green waste would create a lot of methane when it goes to landfill
bs .. all green waste should be composted .. and it is to a large degree here now

conservation of energy through better design in building and manufacturing ( good efficient things made to last ) is at this point probably the largest untapped form of energy in that it helps generation meet demand
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )
User avatar
phill
 
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby phill » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:12 pm

https://www.citymetric.com/horizons/fal ... nergy-3720

a less rosy look at the problems and why they want to claim its a green energy source
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )
User avatar
phill
 
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby Stevesub » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:33 pm

Big cheap efficient batteries are the answer, maybe the Aussies are onto something with their Hydro batteries but I suspect that they will not be cheap and definitely not efficient. My guess is individual solar electric with batteries plus solar heating for at least hot water, massive upgrades to insulation standards to those that are in Europe, more efficient heating than resistance heaters, LED lights, etc.

A friend of mine from Ireland says that they have massive insulation 150mm to 300mm thick in walls, ceilings, etc, double or triple glazed windows and very little heating reqd in winter. I have stayed in a house in Denmark, 0 degrees outside, toasty warm inside with no heating.
Stevesub
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

Postby phill » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=774&p=7444&hilit=+micro#p7444

similar on another aardvark forum topic
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )
User avatar
phill
 
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Today's column

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: phill and 1 guest