Page 1 of 3

The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:51 am
by aardvark_admin
This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2018/0622.shtml

A joule saved is worth two joules generated... isn't it?

Surely, our best strategy would be to:

a) become more energy efficient (reduce our consumption of electricity)
b) harness energy sources which (although cyclic) are 100% reliable -- such as tidal.

Would these two strategies not be a whole lot more effective than littering the landscape with an endless sea of wind-turbines and scarring acres of countryside with masses of PVAs which only work for a fraction of the day (and when demand is lowest)?

And how can the greenies on one hand demand more renewables (such as wind turbines) whilst on the other hand, oppose such schemes because of their effect on wildlife and the environment?

What would NZ be like today if the task of getting resource consent to build a major hydro scheme was as bad in the 1900s as it is in the 21st century?

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:57 am
by phill

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:02 am
by aardvark_admin
phill wrote:https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2018/0622.shtml#continue

You sir, are too fast by far :-)

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:15 am
by Hiro Protagonist
You say that wind is "too unreliable", and then go on to say:
"During the "lulls" at peak high or low tide, hydro can fill the gap quite adequately, even in the driest of years."

This applies to wind generation as well. Every kW we can generate by wind, is a kW we can save for later in our hydro lakes. In Europe, you see wind generation all over the place, sadly there seems to be massive NIMBYism here when it comes to wind turbines.

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:45 am
by aardvark_admin
But what happens when we get a protracted spell of dry and calm weather over a summer or two? We've already seen instances where the hydro systems have gotten critically low and it's not difficult to imagine a summer of almost no wind. Tidal is the only guaranteed, 100% reliable source of renewable in NZ and the shape of the country makes it *ideal* for harnessing that energy.

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:55 am
by Hiro Protagonist
See "save for later" in my reply. Generating as much as we can via wind when it is available, will help to prevent those storage lakes getting critically low in the 1st place. And if you can imagine "a summer of almost no wind", all I can say is, there are plenty of places in NZ where that idea stretches the imagination to breaking point.

Renewable energy is like the stock market. You need to diversify to spread out your risk. I'm all in favour of tidal, but it too is not without risk [the tides won't fail, but anything in the sea is bloody difficult to make anything close to 100% reliable].

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:11 am
by BruceNZ
aardvark_admin wrote:And how can the greenies on one hand demand more renewables (such as wind turbines) whilst on the other hand, oppose such schemes because of their effect on wildlife and the environment?

You reckon the greenies are bad? Imagine what the local iwi will say when you propose a tidal generation system anywhere near the local harbour...

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:13 am
by phord
old-fashioned incandescent bulbs, many of which will run for 6-7 hours a day in winter --


Incandescent bulbs put out 90% heat, which actually complements an electric heater in the winter.
If poor people (who don't have heat-pumps) buy LED bulbs, their heaters will have to run longer to get their rooms up to a comfortable temperature.

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:25 am
by phill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_pow ... ew_Zealand

nothing is a silver bullet here .. ohh for the tides in the pilbara / kimberley areas
hydro lakes are our best storage battery .. just turn on when needed to fill the gaps
and should be used as such .. not as the main power generation method .. but as the go to top up when required
in a well designed power generation infrastructure we would have ~80 % of normal demand covered by other methods in average conditions ( average wind average sunlight etc )
for the rest and emergencies we use hydro

no one or possibly even 2 renewable sources of energy generation can do that .. we need a good mix of all thats available to us .. wind , sun . geo , tide / tidal current and possibly even wave

Re: The tide of change in energy production (22 Jun, 2018)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:27 am
by phill
phord wrote:
old-fashioned incandescent bulbs, many of which will run for 6-7 hours a day in winter --


Incandescent bulbs put out 90% heat, which actually complements an electric heater in the winter.
If poor people (who don't have heat-pumps) buy LED bulbs, their heaters will have to run longer to get their rooms up to a comfortable temperature.


reminds me of my favorite scrooge dialog
"come inside and warm your bones aside this roarin candle "