Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

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Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby aardvark_admin » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:23 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2018/1218.shtml

Isn't the tourism industry engaging in deceptive advertising with its "clean, green" and "100% pure" advertising of this country?

Why are we back to subsidising farmers while we continue to beat the "free trade" and "no subsidies" drum at every opportunity in respect to other nations?

Why aren't we taking our responsibilities to mitigate future climate change seriously enough to enact measures that other countries (such as Norway) have done?

Are we a country of fraudsters who simply talk the talk but fail to walk the walk?

Would this be a better country if we actually did the right things in respect to these issues?
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby Kiwiiano » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:46 am

Imagine a nation that was honest and didn't have to engage in deceptive advertising to bring tourists to its shores.

Especially when the sheer numbers of tourists become a growing part of the problem
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby GSVNoFixedAbode » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:07 am

Dairy subsidies make the dairy industry look lucrative: knock off all the subsidies and see how many want to switch back to sheep. We used to have around 70 million sheep, but that's now down to about 30 million. Sheep farming is far less of an impact upon the environment, but doesn't line the pockets as quickly. If the true cost of dairy farms were factored - including the environmental cost - then I think we'd be back to #1 Tourism then #2 wool-based as our biggest earners. At present it seems you can plonk a dairy farm anywhere - just add water and ignore the dried-up streambeds, aquifers, and nasty runoff. Gone are the days of my schoolboy teachings: "some areas are suitable for dairy farming, some are not".
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby phill » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:30 am

the short answer is yup
how and why are much longer
why have the marketing and spin departments been allowed to lie to us for so long
well probably because they are the spin and marketing departments and thats what they do ... it might sound silly but its what we expect then to do .. least we start to feel bad about what we have done / allowed to happen ... we must not be allowed to feel upset or guilty ... its a very trumpish psychology .. if we keep telling ourselves we havnt done wrong .. then we havnt done wrong
i guess we have all become the equivalent of the guards at auschwitz
i am good i feel sorry .. but most of the others are very bad
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby Geoffm » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:06 am

GSVNoFixedAbode wrote:Dairy subsidies make the dairy industry look lucrative: knock off all the subsidies and see how many want to switch back to sheep. We used to have around 70 million sheep, but that's now down to about 30 million. Sheep farming is far less of an impact upon the environment, but doesn't line the pockets as quickly. If the true cost of dairy farms were factored - including the environmental cost - then I think we'd be back to #1 Tourism then #2 wool-based as our biggest earners. At present it seems you can plonk a dairy farm anywhere - just add water and ignore the dried-up streambeds, aquifers, and nasty runoff. Gone are the days of my schoolboy teachings: "some areas are suitable for dairy farming, some are not".


Subsidies? With my parents having been farmers for 45 years, we never received a cent of subsidies. SMPs for (sheep and beef) farming disappeared in the 1980s. Care to detail (exactly with their values) what subsidies we have been missing out on?
There is no money with sheep farming - the wool costs more to shear than it receives, thanks to nylon carpets and other synthetics.
For those green house gases, have you taken into account the grass and hundreds of trees we have on the farm? I don't think it does, yet these are taken into account for forestry.
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby phill » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:24 am

couple of things there
yes the carbon take up from farms should be considered .. i think it comes out as a net gain of warming gasses because the carbon takeup does not match the methane warming effect .. but it should be in the equation ( im pretty sure it already is )
second
wool should be marketed as the green alternative to oil based fibres
its less environmentally damaging than cotton
only hemp and bamboo fibres should beat it for green marketing
if farmers didnt blindly hate greenies so much maybe they would benefit a bit more
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby hagfish » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:29 pm

Neither international tourism nor intensive dairy has a future. Once they dry up, we'll have to pull our heads in. The upside is .. we'll have to pull our heads in. It's a hard sell, but reducing consumption (fossil fuels, meat, international travel) is the only way. 'Science' isn't going to save us. A 'strong economy' isn't going to save us - it only increases consumption. I was expecting a solid financial crash last year, but it never eventuated. When the music does finally stop, and the poor ol planet will breathe a sigh of relief*

*Of course it won't really, but industrialised society might get an extra few years.
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Re: Time to end the fraud? (18 Dec, 2018)

Postby phill » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:13 pm

intensive dairy has to die
if it has to be a bullet in the head then thats whats needed
tourism .. different ballpark
the present system of flying for 2 days to london staying 10 days and flying for 2 days back again needs the same bullet intensive dairy does

high speed sail and lightweight mag stabilised solar trains are perhaps the most sane replacements
in a world where greed is removed by need we dont have to work 7 x 40 making temporary widgets
we can make the ones that need making in less than a month .. if we make them properly in the first place
that means instead of 14 days holiday a year we have to fill 330 odd .. 660 if you work back to back working years
take out a couple of hundred for the farm help / land care holidays and your still left with plenty to enjoy a clean and beautiful planet
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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