Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

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Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby aardvark_admin » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:13 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2020/0831.shtml

Is the "zero tolerance" policy for speeding perhaps a very subtle first-step towards the government starting to claw back some of the billions it has handed out by way of subsidies and support programs during the CV19 pandemic?

Are we going to see a lot more of the same, with stiffer fines and harsher enforcement being a great way to claw back dollars without having to mention the "tax" word in the lead-up to an election?

And what will the longer term strategy be for mitigating the effect of this huge government debt?

Harsh taxation or quantative easing?

Place your bets now...
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby RoddyAxn » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:51 am

I mention to my boy over breakfast that his car is WOF and rego for school run year 13

That the police will be pulling over all cars for speed especially 31km/hr in road works and doing a $490 fine for no WOF
$400 no rego. Gordon tow trucked if no licence 28 day impound fee $400

We need a legislator to put in progressive taxation.

Sell a house that is not your primary residence or business related and you pay zero to one hundred present on every dollar after the millionth in tax.

Think about it. G hart sells $1 CHH. He only gets $500,000 for the year. Same as prime minister. Good
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby GSVNoFixedAbode » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:35 am

Definitely it'll be generational debt so we have to re-gear the economy to work within that. I'd like to see the high tax bracket brought back in here - something like 50% over $300k.

There have been other recent suggestions overseas that could be argued as having merit:
- one-off tax for Billionaires to re-fund the economy
- Have a 'maximum' net worth of (for example) $2B or for NZ $1B. You could never spend more than that so why accumulate/hoard it?
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby aardvark_admin » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:48 am

GSVNoFixedAbode wrote:- one-off tax for Billionaires to re-fund the economy

That could be seen as a rather nasty "envy-tax". I'm not a rampant capitalist but I don't know that we should be saying "I don't care how hard you've worked for your money, I want/need it more than you"

- Have a 'maximum' net worth of (for example) $2B or for NZ $1B. You could never spend more than that so why accumulate/hoard it?

You assume that wealth over $1B will be sitting in a bank vault somewhere doing nothing. Chances are that very little of today's billionaires have their money locked up in gold reserves or cash-in-bank. More often than not, these people *are* billionaires because they know how to make their money work for them, through investment in productive enterprises -- the sort of enterprises that create jobs and wealth for others.

Given that the *vast* majority of that wealth will be in company shares -- what do you suggest? That the government takes posession of those shares and holds them on behalf of the public?

Kind of sounds a bit like theft -- but then again, some argue that theft is exactly what taxation is :-)
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby goosemoose » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:56 am

aardvark_admin wrote:More often than not, these people *are* billionaires because they know how to make their money work for them, through investment in productive enterprises -- the sort of enterprises that create jobs and wealth for others.

Well, remember when John Key sold citizenship to these global billionaires, Theil comes to mind. Aren't they providing enormous benefit to this country as per the terms of the citizenship sale agreement? Or were we conned?

Inevitably it will have to be taxes I think. I don't think we "economically grow" our way out of this one, no matter what the politicians and economists say.
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby Perry » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:59 am

Some lesser-known background information.

Worldwide, investors were 'rattled' by the covid-19 outbreak and NZ is seen as a safe harbour.

When Robertson 'went to the markets,' asking for credit / money, it was over-subscribed.

The interest rate is half a percent.

Some parcels (over $5B?) were to be inflation adjusted.

There is every likelihood that these borrowings will utilise the roll-over option, more than once.
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One needs to set the Police's new-found zeal for the speed limit zero-tolerance [tax-grab] against other things like the unlawful Northland road blocks and the multiple unlawful public demonstrations in three major cities. Look up the articles and see the oft-repeated-by-the-police word "educate." (Or educative, or the like.)

When Is Zero Not Zero?

When there's easy money to be made?

Picking motorists off, one-at-a-time for infringements is too easy and earns revenue.

Picking off law-breaking protesters en masse is too hard, endangers police officers and earns no revenue.

Who do they think they're kidding? Is this the new Police mantra:

Crime fighting costs
But motorists pay
Cars we will stop
While crims get away.


You be the judge.

And wouldn't you know it, the Minister of Police and Minister of Revenue are one and the same: Stuart Nash. That wouldn't be a conflict of interest by any chance, would it?

Bruce wrote:Could now be exactly the wrong time to be cashed-up and sitting on a healthy bank balance that might be hugely eroded over the coming years?

Been like that for quite a while, now.
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby GSVNoFixedAbode » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:57 am

aardvark_admin wrote:You assume that wealth over $1B will be sitting in a bank vault somewhere doing nothing. Chances are that very little of today's billionaires have their money locked up in gold reserves or cash-in-bank. More often than not, these people *are* billionaires because they know how to make their money work for them, through investment in productive enterprises -- the sort of enterprises that create jobs and wealth for others.

Given that the *vast* majority of that wealth will be in company shares -- what do you suggest? That the government takes posession of those shares and holds them on behalf of the public?

Kind of sounds a bit like theft -- but then again, some argue that theft is exactly what taxation is :-)

I'm thinking more of people like Bezos and Zuckerberg, with their wealth in ownership of shares, and dividends from such. If there was a ceiling on wealth then share allocation may have to adopt a different model. I still can't quite get my head around 1 person owning / controlling $200 Billion, be they shares or otherwise. Then again you look at how Amazon treat its workers and it goes some way to explaining the vast fortune he's accumulated. A lot of people working hard, but very few individuals benefiting from it.

As an aside I always thought a Japanese (??) company that had a 9x rule had the right idea: the maximum the CEO could earn was 9x that of the minimum waged employee.
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby aardvark_admin » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:59 am

Yes, neither pure capitalism nor pure socialism deliver the utopia they promise. The real solution lies somewhere inbetween.
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby hagfish » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:02 am

I don't know why the government has to 'go to the market' - why go cap-in-hand to the Aussie banks like some schmuck, to borrow its own currency? Why not just issue the funds? The loop gets closed as the funds evenutally find their way back by way of tax, and get zeroed-out. 'Money' notwithstanding, there are millions of smart, healthy, hard-working people on these islands - we can (and do) provide what ever infrastructure and services we want.

And something the central govt wants right now is community resilience. They are funding (via local govt) food-security and community-building initiatives left and right. They have seen the writing on the wall. Buckle up, Aardvarkians! We are all we have.
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Re: Has the claw-back begun? (31 Aug, 2020)

Postby aardvark_admin » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:08 am

hagfish wrote:I don't know why the government has to 'go to the market' - why go cap-in-hand to the Aussie banks like some schmuck, to borrow its own currency? Why not just issue the funds?

I agree... and from where has the money come? Was their enough liquidity in the world to meet all the borrowings of govermments? Or have we simply handed the task (and profits) of printing more money on to others who will relish in the rewards they earn for doing so?
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