Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

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Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed May 15, 2019 6:04 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2019/0515.shtml

Is Ms Ardern really just bewildered and confused -- or are her attempts to bathe in the global limelight more likely to be stereotypical political exploitation of a tragedy?

Why is Ms Ardern hell-bent on righting the world's wrongs when she seems to have failed so miserably to address issues such as child poverty in her own country, as she promised she would when she ran for election?

Are Ms Ardern's actions being driven by a slick personal PR team who've seen a golden opportunity in what was the Christchurch mosque shootings... or am I just too damned cynical?

And why are our deep-rooted social problems getting nothing more than a fresh coat of paint instead of the concerned efforts required to actually sort them out properly?
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby roygbiv » Wed May 15, 2019 7:39 am

You could actually argue that she is using using her position and power to try and prevent a reoccurrence of an atrocity that happened to a quiet country that that she leads. I would be a little worried if she felt that her government could not run for a week or so without her actually being there. But, she must have taken her phone with her.
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed May 15, 2019 7:59 am

Yes, you could argue that... but I'd have to ask, what qualification does Ms Ardern have to be attempting this herculian task? Simply being the PM of a country where an attrrocity has been committed does not qualify you to be leading the team which can solve the problem.

The proposed solutions are naive in the extreme. For example, in just over an hour I'll be part of a live-stream taking about the commercial and recreational use of unmanned aircraft (drones). I've been doing this for a couple of years now and nothing that happens on this stream is in any way related to terrorism or violence of the type we saw in Christchurch. However, part of the proposed solution to this hate-crime problem is to prohibit live-streaming.

I'm not the only one involved in regular live-streaming... in fact there are probably millions of live-streams every year and so far, only one which has become part of a hate/terror crime. It seems therefore, that to propose the halting of live-streaming when there have been just a tiny handful of examples of it being used for "bad things" is outrageous.

I gather that the offender in the Christchurch incident drove to and from the mosque... shall we ban driving now (especially in light of the quite significant number of terror crimes that have involved, either directly or incidentally, the use of cars or trucks)?

No, of course we don't consider for one second a ban on driving just because a few lunatics have mis-used vehicles to kill. So explain to me again why Ms Ardern's group are touting for livestreaming to be banned?

Clearly, those proposing such a ban have such a thin grasp on the actual problem that they are not at all qualified to come up with crazy proposals to solve it.

Now addressing child poverty in New Zealand is probaby something that Ms Ardern would be much better at -- so how about we stick to our strengths and Ms Ardern honours her promises -- rather than pretend we have skills we don't simply in order to exploit a political opportunity?
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Frustration

Postby Perry » Wed May 15, 2019 9:53 am

Bruce wrote: But these are symptoms of a much deeper problem, one of intolerance. One that can only be fixed through education and information.

From the little that's been available, frustration with the W'gton woodenheads disconnection from citizens' reality, is a significant motive. Something you oft mention or imply and perhaps akin to the chap who immolated himself on parliament's steps.

Bruce wrote:The changes have to be made at a much more ground-roots level. Right from the start, we need to educate people as to the benefits of cultural diversity and the importance that everyone's rights are respected and preserved, so long as they do not impinge the rights of others.

Only if that applies to all people, including the 'other' cultures.

Bruce wrote:Never mind though, I'm sure Ms Ardern's PR people are stoked at their success so far and will have a nice plan of action to continue leveraging this tragedy to the benefit of at least one individual and her political allies.Tragic.

Indeed.

Image
Last edited by Perry on Wed May 15, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed May 15, 2019 1:33 pm

Geez Stuff, can't you come up with your own adjectives????

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics ... s-gun-laws

Aardvark published at 6am
Stuff story published at 9.30am

Sigh!
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby A Bradford » Wed May 15, 2019 8:35 pm

I actually wrote 1300 words refuting your “tolerance” (aka child anti-discrimination programme) argument but have omitted it to save everyone the grief and will instead briefly comment on the other two issues in your post. Except to say that we already have a programme dealing with intolerance. You must have seen the trans... (well... I'll use a term that you use in your videos) "ladyboys" in primary schools.

As for the Prime minister. Well… IMHO left wing Prime Ministers are always self-promoting at the UN trying to get their next job. It’s what they do. Brussels is the socialist Holy Grail. Didn’t Helen Clark do this? Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd were shocking. Rudd tried for Director General and spat-the-dummy badly when they wouldn’t take him. I haven’t noticed this tendency in the right wing and would be very interested if anyone knows of one.

The “compulsory reading” recoverable proxy proposal (I hadn’t seen this before) while interesting seems to me, after just a quick glance, to be government by committee. The removal of the opportunity to choose the wisest and most competent person to lead us. The removal of the competence hierarchy.

I think that the politicians at the top are actually quite good at judging each other. The incompetent ones don’t get prime portfolios or portfolios at all. And the leader is chosen, not by the people but by this select group based on this intimate knowledge of their competency unknown to us. It’s flawed but works well enough. I note that New Zealanders seem to be in agreement that MMP was a step forward but to the rest of the world and from my point of view, a step backward. It seems to me that your current government was voted in by a minority. So tinker with democracy at you own peril.

I wonder if you would also want to apply your system to, say, surgery. If you ever needed surgery would you believe in a competence hierarchy and search out the most competent surgeon or leave it to a committee of the people where the majority-vote of the people would dictate the steps of the procedure. Seems silly to make such a comparison but it is essentially the same thing.

After all, what does a civil engineer know about foreign policy, especially since that engineer doesn’t have their own Foreign Affairs department full of classically trained bureaucrats providing advice? Can we really trust that engineer to make an informed vote on a serious foreign affairs issue.

I don’t agree that “in the vast majority of cases, voters will be more than happy to leave their proxy with their MP.” I think that ideological differences will motivate people to vote against the politician or party regardless of issue.

But I will give it a bit more thought.

There is a political party in Australia who proposes something similar to what you propose. Perhaps you could start the NZ branch if there isn’t already one.

https://voteflux.org/
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby phill » Wed May 15, 2019 9:32 pm

I actually wrote 1300 words refuting your “tolerance” argument but have omitted it to save everyone the grief

thank you

the leader is chosen, not by the people but by this select group based on this intimate knowledge of their competency unknown to us. It’s flawed but works well enough.

rudd, gillard, thatcher, douglas, muldoon, joice, adern, collins, .. jeez they wont stop but i will

I think that the politicians at the top are actually quite good at judging each other

again with the gillard, rudd, thatcher, muldoon, bridges .. all could describe their major supporters / deputies as .. "slightly stabby"

The incompetent ones don’t get prime portfolios or portfolios at all

piff / gawff / gasp ... take your pick

New Zealanders seem to be in agreement that MMP was a step forward but to the rest of the world and from my point of view, a step backward.

have never heard of that from any foreigners except the obvious notable exception of yourself ... which you thoughtfully pointed out already

It seems to me that your current government was voted in by a minority

it wasnt .. i think the total vote count would be between 60/40 to a low of 55/45 in favour of the present government


as for the jumbled rest .. the swiss seem to think their fairly close system is a good way .. so do i

edit actual final vote count
govt total vote percentage 50.1
major opposition party vote percentage 44.4
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby phill » Sun May 19, 2019 2:00 pm

.. Liberal/National coalition .... Labor .... Greens
Last election 76 seats, 42.0% .... 69 seats, 34.7% .... 1 seat, 10.2%
Seats won 74 seats ..... 66 seats ..... 1 seat
Seat change Decrease2[2] .... Decrease3[3] .... Steady
Popular vote 4,718,427 ..... 3,890,993 ..... 1,156,443

results as of 13:32 NZ time 19/5/2019 austrailian election
you have 1 party with over 10 percent of the vote yet only 0.75% of the say in parliament
how is that anywhere near close to democracy . It was incidentally the prime reason we went to MMP which you quote as " the rest of the world and from my point of view, a step backward "
to be fair if you are in one of the two parties that alternate dictatorships i guess it would be , under MMP the greens would have 10.2 % +-1 of the seats and 10% of the population would have the representation they voted for . Don't mistake anything the 2 major party pollies here hate MMP it is far easier to dictate when any debate in parliament is just a waste of hot air because it will never change anything . They have the majority, whatever they say goes .. end of
labour got 69 times more seats with not much over triple their votes
liberal etc got 79 times more seats with with not much over four times their vote
if you do the math its not hard to work out that you can win 50% of the seats with less than 15% of the vote with the FPP ( or aussie modified FPP ) voting systems ( go on ask me and i will lay it out for you )
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby Perry » Sun May 19, 2019 2:10 pm

To me, all this chopping and changing indicates one thing.

A serious dis-connect between the pollies and the people.

This could equally apply to Oz:
When the New Zealand public act like sheep
The New Zealand government acts like
A shearing gang that does not stop
Until all the New Zealand public have been fleeced.
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Re: Jacinda Ardern - bewildered and confused (15 May, 2019)

Postby phill » Sun May 19, 2019 3:21 pm

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/fpp-to-mmp

a simple and concise explanation of what MMP is and how it works
and the history of why and how it was introduced
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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