What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

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What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:25 am

This column is archived at: http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2014/1205.shtml

How can it be that two people with a long list of previous offending (including crimes of violence) are given a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket for the hideously nasty murder of an innocent man?

Why is this judge effectively telling us that running a ponzi scheme (like David Ross who got almost 11 years for doing so) is a far greater crime than taking a human life in such a grizzly fashion?

Is this case sending the wrong message and showing just how crappy our justice system has become?
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby GSVNoFixedAbode » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:45 am

Easiest method of getting away with murder in this country is to run the person down in your car when they're on a bicycle. Often not even a jail sentence.

Download a pop princess' latest 2 minutes of tonsil warbling via a torrent and whammo - HUGE punitive actions.

This is not a justice system any more, just a legal system that's been twisted out of shape.
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby par_annoyed » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:53 am

aardvark_admin wrote:Why is this judge effectively telling us that running a ponzi scheme (like David Ross who got almost 11 years for doing so) is a far greater crime than taking a human life in such a grizzly fashion?


Because increasingly over the years financial crimes are regarded FAR worse than murdering one of the ordinary citizens...after all money and power RULE, and most of the population are useless eaters, so what's the harm ??? Far worse if you violate copyright, forget to pay the IRD a few bucks, or stand up for your rights and be branded some kind of threat or terrorist than to be an ordinary murderer....

After all the USA cops seem to be able to kill people with impunity.

What ? ... prove to me I'm wrong then ..... I wish I was, but it's not what I see .....
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby RoddyAxn » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:03 am

Do you have the URL for the bit torrent of the wobbling epiglottis?

Bikes would need their own roads to separate the bikes from 18 wheel 45,000 kg loaded trucks with drivers sleep deprived on 70 hours per week work in five days.

I suggest 35 hour weeks for truck drivers with a minimum wage for truck drivers of $40 per hour.

No you say burning petrol and transport fuel in this manner over a person.

Well I say if Germany can have 35 hour per week truck drivers then New Zealand is killing people on the roads needlessly.

Never mind the cheap export of our raw logs and primary produce.

If a person attacks me and threatens the life of my wife then I am happy to sit in jail for my natural life for taking the aggressors life in self defence. So let that be the standard. Any life is worth a life in prison.

If my son is under 14 years old and kills any person then as his dad and father, who looks after his educational, then I am happy to atone with life in prison for the life taken. Let the whole nation sign up to this. No let the whole world sign up to this. And let soldiers not be immune. Yes war will have equal numbers of prisoners for life as those dead from war.

Good question to discuss.
Last edited by RoddyAxn on Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby Screw » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:15 am

The problem with a Murder charge is twofold. The Prosecution must prove it beyond reasonable doubt and they must prove INTENT that is; that the Perps pre-planned and intended to kill the victim. Something that can be difficult to do.

Murder is when some-one pre-plans and carries out the death of another. The Legal term is "Malicious Aforethought". The Judge has to weigh up the evidence; did the perps deliberately pre plan the death? Did they pour petrol on the victim to carry it out? If they did then that is Murder, if they didn't then it's Manslaughter. Their previous has nothing to do with the case.

We only get bits of info from such a Court Case and to criticise the Judge is premature. We weren't in the Court and didn't hear all the evidence.
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:22 am

Let's face it Screw... if you pour petrol on someone then strike a lighter -- you clearly have serious intent to kill.

You don't "accidentally" pour petrol on someone then set them on fire -- just doesn't happen.

Regardless of whether we're talking manslaughter or murder, the sentence given came nowhere close to the maximum allowed by the Act so just what could have been the mitigation for such a token penalty?
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby hagfish » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:30 am

I can't comment on the 'value' of a human life, but I think the 'cost' or 'dollar worth' of a human life is about NZ$50,000. It's certainly greater than $5000 - if your life can be saved for five grand, you'll probably be okay. It's definitely less than $500,000. If that operation is going to cost half a million, you're probably a goner. If saving your life will cost within an order of magnitude of $50,000, you have an even chance of society stumping up to save you, or sucking up the extra cost to protect you.

As for trucks - how about allowing articulated vehicles within 50Km/hr zones only between midnight and 6am? During the day, it would be safer to resupply supermarkets from 10-ton trucks. If fuel/stock trucks have to move through a city, they could do so in the wee hours, at 30Km/hr. But it would be less convenient (ie more expensive). It would probably cost more than $50,000 per life saved, so won't be 'worth it', so we'll continue to have juggernauts cracking our roads and our water mains and squishing people on bikes.
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby Screw » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:18 am

aardvark_admin wrote:Let's face it Screw... if you pour petrol on someone then strike a lighter -- you clearly have serious intent to kill.

You don't "accidentally" pour petrol on someone then set them on fire -- just doesn't happen.

Regardless of whether we're talking manslaughter or murder, the sentence given came nowhere close to the maximum allowed by the Act so just what could have been the mitigation for such a token penalty?



Nope you have a serious intent to injure not necessarily to kill. Different grades. We weren't at the Court so we didn't hear all the evidence. The Judge decides on the evidence that was put forward.

I agree, the sentence seems light but again we weren't there so we can't judge it. I don't know what evidence was presented to the Court that allowed the mitigation by the Judge on sentencing so I can't say. Some-one with more time than I have should search through the Court Records to find out.
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby Malcolm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:33 pm

hagfish wrote:I can't comment on the 'value' of a human life, but I think the 'cost' or 'dollar worth' of a human life is about NZ$50,000. It's certainly greater than $5000 - if your life can be saved for five grand, you'll probably be okay. It's definitely less than $500,000. If that operation is going to cost half a million, you're probably a goner. If saving your life will cost within an order of magnitude of $50,000, you have an even chance of society stumping up to save you, or sucking up the extra cost to protect you.

As for trucks - how about allowing articulated vehicles within 50Km/hr zones only between midnight and 6am? During the day, it would be safer to resupply supermarkets from 10-ton trucks. If fuel/stock trucks have to move through a city, they could do so in the wee hours, at 30Km/hr. But it would be less convenient (ie more expensive). It would probably cost more than $50,000 per life saved, so won't be 'worth it', so we'll continue to have juggernauts cracking our roads and our water mains and squishing people on bikes.



I think LTSA place a value on human life of about $2.6Million. So when looking at road upgrade projects they consider if any lives will be saved by the alteration and if so they put $2.6million in to the benefit column for each life they think will be saved.
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Re: What price an innocent life? (5 Dec, 2014)

Postby phill » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:
hagfish wrote:

I think LTSA place a value on human life of about $2.6Million. So when looking at road upgrade projects they consider if any lives will be saved by the alteration and if so they put $2.6million in to the benefit column for each life they think will be saved.




so how much of that 2.6mill is government special committee salaries and how much is stone and tar

cause im pretty sure the stone and tar is the costing for what we are worth and the salaries will be what they think they can cream from us
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiney things i have got
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