Why I am What I am...

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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Screw » Tue May 26, 2015 1:40 pm

You raise good points Bruce and so do you Phil. But you are fixated on money. I will get into the money side of things later but money should only be a method of trade not a commodity in itself. As it stands when money becomes a commodity it suffers from the vagarities of any other trade commodity. That is why we have the rich/poor analogy you describe. In a true and real trade both sides get equal benefit from it.
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby aardvark_admin » Tue May 26, 2015 2:00 pm

I agree Screw... which is why I used "hours worked" as a metric.

Although we tend to value a lawyer's hours more than a cleaner's, the reality is that at a very basic level, they are one and the same. An hour applied by an individual is an hour of work -- regardless of the artificially contrived monetary value attached to it.

I would wager that there are a great deal of people working at jobs which are invaluable to society and which the "edumikated" academics of the world would consider "beneath them" -- yet let see how long they can survive without that work being done. Sewage plant workers, bin-men, cleaners, etc... the "low-level" jobs that many consider to be of less value than the guy who can find you a loophole in the tax laws so as to save you handing over an extra few grand to the IRD for instance.

Personally, I'd love an egalitarian society and I don't judge people on the jobs they perform or their social standing. I judge everyone as the person they are. One of my best mates is a guy who works at the local "Achievement Centre". He's probably below average intelligence, looks pretty rough and is someone that I suspect many folk would prefer to ignore if they saw him on the street -- but he's a straight-up, honest, good natured bloke who is an incredibly decent human being. I'd rather give him an hour of my time than many of the "professionals" or Mensa candidates I've known who don't come close to his level of humanity.

Unfortunately, my tendency to judge people on the person they are and on their deeds rather than their title, position or clothes gets me into lots of trouble. All too often, jumped up little shirts who find themselves in positions of power *expect* respect and homage to be paid when, in fact, they do not deserve it. These people tend to dislike me -- because their smart clothes, work titles and bureaucratic power does not over-ride their failure to perform, their bias, bigotry or just downright nastiness if that's what they exhibit. They seem awfully confused when I treat them just like anyone else -- rather than holding them in great esteem simply because of *what* they are.
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby phill » Tue May 26, 2015 2:09 pm

yup
my basic point was its hard to value things using money when it itself has only a transient value
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiny things i have got
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Screw » Tue May 26, 2015 3:29 pm

Exactly. I go into it more in the next post. I just have to put it all together so it makes sense.
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Screw » Tue May 26, 2015 10:35 pm

More:

What history shows is that a sudden awakening to the realities of a difficult situation is far and away the least likely result of what I’ve called the era of impact, the second of the five stages of collapse. (The first, is the era of pretence; the remaining three, which will be covered in the coming days, are the eras of response, breakdown, and dissolution.)

The era of impact is the point at which it becomes clear to most people that something has gone wrong with the most basic narratives of a society—not just a little bit wrong, in the sort of way that requires a little tinkering here and there, but really, massively, spectacularly wrong. It arrives when an asset that was supposed to keep rising in price forever stops rising, does its Wile E. Coyote moment of hang time, and then drops like an anvil. It shows up when an apparently entrenched political system, bristling with soldiers and secret police, implodes in a matter of days or weeks and is replaced by a provisional government whose leaders look just as stunned as everyone else. It comes whenever a state of affairs that was assumed to be permanent runs into serious trouble—but somehow it never seems to succeed in getting people to notice just how temporary that state of affairs always was.
That, in turn, suggests that the transition to the era of impact may be fairly close. Exactly when it’s likely to arrive is a complex question, and exactly what’s going to land the blow that will crack the crackpot optimism and make it impossible to ignore the arrival of real trouble is an even more complex one. In 1929, those who hadn’t bought into the bubble could be perfectly sure—and in fact, a good many of them were perfectly sure—that the usual mechanism that brings bubbles to a catastrophic end was about to terminate the boom of the 1920s with extreme prejudice, which it did. In the last decades of the French monarchy, it was by no means clear exactly what sequence of events would bring the Ancien Régime crashing down, but such thoughtful observers as Talleyrand knew that something of the sort was likely to follow the crisis of legitimacy then under way.

In much the same sense, we’ve got a global economy burdened to the breaking point with more than a quadrillion US dollars of unpayable debt; we’ve got a global political system coming apart at the seams as the United States slips toward the inevitable fate of empires and its rivals circle warily, waiting for the kill; they've got a domestic political system there in the US entering a classic prerevolutionary condition under the impact of a textbook Crisis of Legitimacy; we’ve got a global climate that’s hammered by our rank stupidity in treating the atmosphere as a gaseous sewer for our wastes; we’ve got a global fossil fuel industry that’s frantically trying to pretend that scraping the bottom of the barrel means that the barrel is full, and the list goes on. It’s as though Colonel Mustard, Professor Plum, Miss Scarlet, in the Boardgame 'Clue' and the rest of them all ganged up on Mr. Boddy at once, and only the most careful autopsy will be able to determine which of them actually dealt the fatal blow.

In the midst of all this uncertainty, there are three things that can, I think, be said for certain about the end of the current era of pretence and the coming of the era of impact. The first is that it’s going to happen. When something is unsustainable, such as Auckland's Housing Crisis, it’s a pretty safe bet that it won’t be sustained indefinitely, and a society that keeps on embracing policies that swap short-term gains for long-term problems will sooner or later end up awash in the consequences of those policies. Timing such transitions is difficult at best; it’s an old adage among stock traders that the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Still, points made above—especially the increasingly shrill tone of the defenders of the existing order—suggest to me that the era of impact may be here within 5 years or so at the outside.

The second thing that can be said for certain about the coming era of impact is that it’s not the end of the world. Apocalyptic fantasies are common and popular in eras of pretence, and for good reason; fixating on the supposed imminence of the Second Coming, human extinction, or what have you, is a great way to distract oneself from the real crisis that’s breathing down our collars. If the real crisis in question is partly or wholly a result of your own actions, while the apocalyptic fantasy can be blamed on someone or something else, that adds a further attraction to the fantasy.
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Screw » Tue May 26, 2015 10:36 pm

The end of our industrial civilisation will be a long, bitter, painful cascade of conflicts, disasters, and accelerating decline in which a vast number of people are going to die before they otherwise would, and a great many things of value will be lost forever. That’s true of any collapsing civilisation, and the misguided decisions of the last forty years have pretty much guaranteed that the current example is going to have an extra helping of all these unwelcome things. Why the sort of apocalyptic sudden stop beloved of Hollywood scriptwriters is the least likely outcome of the predicament of our time; still, insisting on the imminence and inevitability of some such game-ending event will no doubt be as popular as usual in the years immediately ahead.

The third thing that I think can be said for certain about the coming era of impact, though, is the one that counts. If it follows the usual pattern, as I expect it to do, once the crisis hits there will be serious, authoritative, respectable figures telling everyone exactly what they need to do to bring an end to the troubles and the world back on track to renewed peace and prosperity. Taking these pronouncements seriously and following their directions will be extremely popular, and it will almost certainly also be a recipe for unmitigated disaster. If forewarned is forearmed, as the saying has it, this is a piece of firepower to keep handy as the era of pretence winds down.

As some-one much wiser than I once said, "Scum floats to the top of the pond and if it is not cleaned out, the pond dies." That is true in Politics as well as ponds. We are at the stage where our Political class need to get cleaned out. We have the same malady as so many Western countries have, Carreer Politicians who have never done a decent day's work in their lives, they move from University into Parliament with no experience of having to work for a living. They become so removed from the society they govern that they can not see the forest for the trees.
How do we fix this? By convincing good decent people to stand for Parliament. Then voting them in. Not the sort that we have now but honest, decent people from all walks of life, young and old, weak and strong, professionals and workers. They are out there. We form our own Political party and get then to join and represent us. We set the values we want to cherish and then convince others to follow us. It's not hard to do, just look at parties like Syrisa in Greece, Poderma in Spain as examples. Yes, they are "Left Wing" but if that is what it takes to break up what we have now then so be it.

I will be discussing money and the financial system next.
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Logan Savage » Thu May 28, 2015 2:22 pm

Screw wrote:How do we fix this? By convincing good decent people to stand for Parliament. Then voting them in. Not the sort that we have now but honest, decent people from all walks of life, young and old, weak and strong, professionals and workers.
That seems to be the nub of the problem. I took my ten year old son to parliment and he was appalled at their behaviour. Why would a decent person want to enter that quagmire and how do they stay a decent person once they are in there? I wonder what Micky Savage would make of our current opposition? Maybe the whole system needs a shake up. As Pia Mancini said "We are 21st century citizens doing our best to interact with 19th century designed institutions that are based on an information technology of the 15th century."
"Capitalism has defeated communism. It is now well on its way to defeating democracy"
(David C. Korten, When Corporations Rule the World)
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Screw » Thu May 28, 2015 10:34 pm

That's why the saying about pond scum is so apt Logan. It's no use just clearing the top of the pond, the scum just keeps on coming. Need to clean the whole pond out!
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby mikebartnz » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:53 pm

aardvark_admin wrote:It wouldn't even be so bad if we were investing in *new* property -- that would at least give a boost to the building and related service industries -- but we're not. In places like Auckland, all we're doing is bidding up the value of existing property and thus tying up huge swathes of our very limited capital in inert, unproductive assets which become part of a ponzi scheme.

What's with this we business. I heard recently how a jet will fly in from China and a whole bunch of them will jump on a bus tripping around Auckland with them buying a few houses a piece and then buggering off back to China again.
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Re: Why I am What I am...

Postby Screw » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:15 pm

Exactly MikeB. That is what Little Andy has been saying and got called a "Racist" because he did so.

With the Banks just creating more and more debt creates the 'Bubbles' we know so much about. The debt is so high in NZ that all the income of the country for the next 100yrs could not pay it off. That creates instability.
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