More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

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More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:27 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2021/1027.shtml

Whilst vaccine passports are a sensible move until we reach high enough levels of vaccination to ensure our health system isn't overwhelmed by acute cases of CV19, could they be exactly the wrong strategy if we want to promote a situation where the population has high levels of naturally boosted immunity going into next winter?

All the studies show that exposure to the CV19 virus after immunisation with the vaccine produces significantly higher levels of immunity against symptoms, severe illness or death. By effectively excluding the non-vaccinated population (ie: the ones most likely to spread the virus) from the general population by way of vaccine passports, will we be denying people the opportunity to get this massively important natural immunity by way of exposure to the CV19 virus?

Some reports also indicate that exposure to the virus itself may provide greater immunity to future variants, given that the mRNA vaccine is quite narrowly targeted and the risk of breakthrough variants is quite high. Once again, this makes the case for ensuring that all those who are vaccinated and not at extreme risk due to other conditions, gets exposure while the vaccine-induced immunity remains high.

Should the government set a date or vaccination target whereby vaccine passports will no longer be required -- and in fact, they would significantly reduce our levels of immunity as we head into next winter?
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby hagfish » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:47 am

There are studies that show inoculations can boost immunity after a bout of Covid - most countries are in that situation, where the vaccines came along afterwards. Any links to studies which investigate the effects of getting the vaccine before the Covid would be much appreciated. That situation is much more applicable over here. If it's like choosing to be punched in the face by Mike Tyson's bare knuckles (pre-vaxxed Covid), or with a pair of 8oz gloves on (post-vaxx), I may still be inclined to go for the 'no punches to the face, please' option.
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:50 am

hagfish wrote:I may still be inclined to go for the 'no punches to the face, please' option.

The problem is that all the experts are accepting that you WILL be exposed to the virus once it becomes endemic. The real question is... wouldn't you want to be at peak (vaccine-induced) immunity when that happens, rather than 6-9 months after you've been vaccinated and the level of protection has dropped three-fold or more?
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby phord » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:08 am

I know a hairdresser who works from home.
She is vaccinated, but will try offering services to the non-vaccinated only.
Some sort of marketing experiment apparently.

I'm wondering how she will verify that her customers are non-vaccinated. :?
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby Malcolm » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:16 am

phord wrote:I know a hairdresser who works from home.
She is vaccinated, but will try offering services to the non-vaccinated only.
Some sort of marketing experiment apparently.

I'm wondering how she will verify that her customers are non-vaccinated. :?

That is easy just say you serve non-vaccinated and the only people who will come close to you will be the crazies.
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby hagfish » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:04 am

aardvark_admin wrote:
hagfish wrote:I may still be inclined to go for the 'no punches to the face, please' option.

The problem is that all the experts are accepting that you WILL be exposed to the virus once it becomes endemic. The real question is... wouldn't you want to be at peak (vaccine-induced) immunity when that happens, rather than 6-9 months after you've been vaccinated and the level of protection has dropped three-fold or more?

I suppose we all have our 'NOPE' threshold:
• Wear a mask! Ok, fine.
• Get the vaccine! Seems kinda rushed, but on balance I suppose it's the right thing to do
• Now get the 'Vid! Wait, what?
• And show your pass! Already dieded of the 'Vid
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby GCSBIntercepts » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:28 am

aardvark_admin wrote:This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2021/1027.shtml

Whilst vaccine passports are a sensible move until we reach high enough levels of vaccination to ensure our health system isn't overwhelmed by acute cases of CV19, could they be exactly the wrong strategy if we want to promote a situation where the population has high levels of naturally boosted immunity going into next winter?

All the studies show that exposure to the CV19 virus after immunisation with the vaccine produces significantly higher levels of immunity against symptoms, severe illness or death. By effectively excluding the non-vaccinated population (ie: the ones most likely to spread the virus) from the general population by way of vaccine passports, will we be denying people the opportunity to get this massively important natural immunity by way of exposure to the CV19 virus?

Some reports also indicate that exposure to the virus itself may provide greater immunity to future variants, given that the mRNA vaccine is quite narrowly targeted and the risk of breakthrough variants is quite high. Once again, this makes the case for ensuring that all those who are vaccinated and not at extreme risk due to other conditions, gets exposure while the vaccine-induced immunity remains high.

Should the government set a date or vaccination target whereby vaccine passports will no longer be required -- and in fact, they would significantly reduce our levels of immunity as we head into next winter?


The vaccine won't protect you. Deal with it.
The vaccine RNA has extremely high error rates in translation from sloppy codon binding, and the spike protein is also pathological.
But, hey - what would I know?

Rung your GP yet Bruce for the great delta infection science experiment?
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby greven » Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:12 pm

phord wrote:I know a hairdresser who works from home.
She is vaccinated, but will try offering services to the non-vaccinated only.
Some sort of marketing experiment apparently.

I'm wondering how she will verify that her customers are non-vaccinated. :?

My guess is she won't even try. It is a risky game plan, but it could pay off.
Make a big announcement & hope the local media & Facebook groups pick up on it, getting her name out there. Follow it up a month later by saying you aren't getting enough patronage from the unvaxxed & have to start accepting the vaccinated again, hoping the media will jump on the chance to write sensationalist articles about it.
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby Perry » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:20 pm

Bruce wrote: produced a high level of immunity

I suspect that the word immunity is mis-applied, given the other comments about reducing the severity of the consequences of a covid infection of one variant or another.

From what I've seen and heard, the fizzer-fix GMO, deceptively-labelled vaccine does not confer immunity of any sort. Nor does it stop a 'jabbed' person from being a carrier and infecting others.

The whole shebang is a crock of crap. Especially when one considers that Fizzer requires an absolute indemnity against claims for adverse side-effects from every gummint it flogs off its GMO jab to.

Much the same applies applies to comrade commissar Cindy's fascist edicts that say: vaccine certificates are needed to give confidence to people that they are not with un-vaccinated people. So the fizzer vaccine does not prevent infection of the vaccinated by the un-vaccinated?

Oh. O.K. What bother with an experimental drug, then?

Is that all really too hard to grasp?
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Re: More on vaccine passports (27 Oct, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:59 am

Perry wrote:I suspect that the word immunity is mis-applied, given the other comments about reducing the severity of the consequences of a covid infection of one variant or another.

I agree. It is perhaps more accurate to say that it gives one a greater *resistance* to infection and the symptoms of CV19.

Much the same applies applies to comrade commissar Cindy's fascist edicts that say: vaccine certificates are needed to give confidence to people that they are not with un-vaccinated people. So the fizzer vaccine does not prevent infection of the vaccinated by the un-vaccinated?

This I totally agree with. If we're being told the truth (and evidence supports the claim) that being immunised makes the virus far less likely to cause serious consequences from CV19 infection then why should anyone care that one in ten people in the general community are not vaccinated?

We have been told that even those who are vaccinated can still catch and spread the disease. We've also been told that the vaccinated are far more likely to be asymptomatic if they catch the disease -- and thus perhaps not even know they are infectious. Meanwhile, the unvaccinated will almost certainly be aware (within quite a short time) that they have caught CV19 and will feel decidedly unwell, therefore likely to take to their beds.

So... if you're standing in a crowd of people it seems to me that you are far *more* likely to be exposed to the virus as a result of asymptomatic vaccinated carriers than unvaxed ones. The pretty young lady standing beside you, showing her vaccination passport, all smiley and happy may be shedding a huge viral load -- while the unvaccinated and sick are feeling so crappy that they're at home feeling sorry for themselves.

But then again, logic and commonsense are unfamiliar qualities to our politicians.
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