Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

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Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:14 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2021/0421.shtml

Is this a no-win situation?

Are we damned if we do, damned if we don't when it comes to speaking out about China's alleged human rights abuses?

Should we be principled or pragmatic?

Can we even trust politicians to make the right decision on a matter this crucial?

What do YOU think we should be doing?
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby phord » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:40 am

Be pragmatic.
NZ is such a small economy that we need all the trade we get.
Human rights in China is none of NZ's business.
The way NZ business treats the lower working class by paying such pitiful wages is disgusting.

Anyway, what about my rights.
I have the right to buy cheep Chinese goods to compensate for our ridiculously high living expenses.
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby hagfish » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:45 am

I got half-way into a comment on the Amazon post a couple of days ago, wherein I ranted that tariffs that level the playing field are good. And - failing that - we should only do business with other countries that have similar environmental/employment regulations to our own. The sooner we stop relying on (for want of a better word) 'slavery', the better it is for everyone, in the long run - even if we pay higher prices forever - that's the real price. But where does it end? If all rare-earth metals come from conflict-ridden hell-holes - if all cotton is soused in poison - do we just say 'goodbye' to clothing and electronics? So I closed the tab.

In the log run, I think our own self-interest depends on our 'being the good we want to see in the world'. In our finite little fishbowl/planet, we can't carry on exporting our sins forever. It's just a matter of 'when'. If we could be 'Cuba, but with less trash and some fresh paint', I'd be okay with that.

If you think 'we the people' are capable of voting for significant medium-term pain on account of 'principles', I can introduce you to about a million Ford Ranger drivers who just don't give a damn. Remember the ruckus over the Springbok Tour? That divided our nation, and it was about human rights vs footy. Even in the face of Covid, a LOT of people just wanted (want!) it to run rife. Principled politicians are our only hope (this side of open warfare) :?
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:06 am

"Principled politicians" <--- now there's an oxymoron if ever I saw one! :-D
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby joeseph » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:20 am

hagfish wrote:human rights vs footy.


There are huge numbers of wars based on religious beliefs, and as sure as Sanitarium is a charitable organisation, Footy is a religion.
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby JonL » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:28 am

Human rights - the great catch cry to clobber countries you are at unofficial war with - and the US and UK are at unofficial war with China and Russia. In China's case, the west bases all it's"human rights for the Uighars" on several reports and articles from people who are so suss I wouldn't trust them to wash my car - that and a compliant MSM who are quite happy to disseminate this rubbish....like the Navalny farce.
What it boils down to is, has NZ got any sovereignty at all in it's own affairs, or, like Australia, is it a wholly owned vassal complying with the foreign"policy" of the US. Forget about self righteous "human rights" howls from countries to whom human rights are just another convenient catchcry and of which, they are as guilty of abusing as anyone else......
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby phill » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:41 pm

we probably should have an official and published " minimal standards for the treatment of humans and the environment "
once it's published, established and adhered to by ourselves we need make no further statement other than " please refer to our basic belief "

few of the five eye's group have a right to condemn others until they have addressed there own sub standard behaviour
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiny things i have got
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:09 pm

phill wrote:few of the five eye's group have a right to condemn others until they have addressed there own sub standard behaviour


^_____ what he said!
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Re: Principles versus pragmatism (21 Apr, 2021)

Postby paulw » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:52 pm

Looks like the China lovers here would sell their grandmother if it meant making another buck from sales to China.
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So Much That's Wrong

Postby Perry » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:34 pm

Bruce wrote:I was quite disturbed to see Nanaia Mahuta defending NZ's stance since she, as a Maori . . .

No, she's not. She's a part-Maori with a WINZ barcode on her chin.
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