I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Have your say on today's Aardvark Daily column

I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:27 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2021/0723.shtml

The fact that the head of one of our largest power companies seems completely unable to grasp the effects of the laws of thermodynamics perhaps speaks volumes as to why NZ has some of the highest power prices in the world -- despite its high percentage of generation from renewables using assets that have already been paid for many times over.

Who is responsible for this daft proposal to turn electricity into hydrogen so that we don't have to import and burn fossil fuels to keep the lights going?

Seriously... are they *that* stupid?
aardvark_admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:37 am

At last... Stuff decides to do its own investigation into the viability and advisability of this proposed hydrogen plant:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/12582869 ... worthwhile
aardvark_admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby Hiro Protagonist » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:58 am

"Given the low lake levels over the past six months, if this plant had been available this year it could have been used to avoid up to one million tonnes of carbon emissions.”

There's some pretty muddy thinking going on, both by the boosters and the reporters, but the above statement isn't 100% B.S.

Manapouri is largely immune to the 'dry year, low lake level' problem because of its location in one of the highest rainfall areas in the world. However if you just need a backstop for the rest of the hydro plants, connecting Manapouri to the national grid would be far more effective than pissing around with H2.

Making H2 from surplus electricity isn't totally nuts either[1], as there are a lot of current users of natural gas that would find it difficult to switch to alternatives, BUT, if we switch the country to electric vehicles, and current coal users and the railways to electricity, even with Manapouri we're not going to have a surplus for long.

The best thing we could do for renewable energy in NZ is bring some more major hydro generation online, backed with wind and solar to improve resiliency during dry years.

[1] There are mechanisms for catalysing H2 production from water that are more efficient than straight electrolysis - dunno if that's being considered by these bozos.
Hiro Protagonist
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 11:26 am

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby hagfish » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:30 am

We all knew that 'plastics recycling' was a rort - just a way of kicking the can down the road for another decade.

Likewise, EVs (and 'hybrids'!) are the car industry's way of pretending we can all still have cars. It might buy them (or at least their finance divisions) another five years.

The 'hydrogen economy' is possibly the ultimate example of this kind of delusion. I can see how pumped hydro might work, but the idea of loading (liquid?) H2 into tanker ships and sending them overseas is absurd. Unless the ships run on bunker fuel, the tanks will be dry before the ships even reach blue water... Sooner or later we just have to face up to reality. It will be 'later'.
hagfish
 
Posts: 1009
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:28 am

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:38 am

hagfish wrote:The 'hydrogen economy' is possibly the ultimate example of this kind of delusion.

I think I see what's happening.

Savvy people have worked out that you don't need to come up with and implement viable business propositions to enjoy a comfortable life of wealth and luxury. All you have to do is come up with some far-fetched promise (even when the science doesn't support your promises) and convince government or naive investors (of which there are plenty) to throw money at you.

By the time everyone discovers "oops, this isn't going to work" you have already drawn down enough of a salary to see you live comfortably for the rest of your life -- or you can move on to the next big deception.

The Martin Jet Pack might be a good example of this perhaps?
aardvark_admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby joeseph » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:15 am

Hiro Protagonist wrote:even with Manapouri we're not going to have a surplus for long.


If there was even a hint of a surplus, the power prices wouldn't be as high as they are...
joeseph
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 2:11 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby phill » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:31 am

i wont go into the basic theme here as the hydrogen generation and efficiency of it's use has many pages on the net anyone can read and understand

our problem is the corruption that is the state / public owned energy companies
all the former state owned generation companies have boards that are landing bases for the suck brigade .. heavy on platitudes, bullshit and fallacies
a wasteland for knowledgeable thinking and future proofing

we wont get any advance in capability till that corruption is addressed and they start hiring engineers and scientists to the board to do the thinking and planning and demote the suck club to the roles they are most suited to ... basically anything that only requires a smilie face and vacant thought process
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiny things i have got
User avatar
phill
 
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby Perry » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:18 pm

Perhaps when we appreciate - for the umpteenth time - that SOEs (most of the electricity generators and transpower) are there to generate a stealth tax (aka a dividend) for the gummint, we should readily understand why the gummint opposes any costs to do with future-proofing. Further, that the gummint-appointed stooges to the Boards are there to ensure nothing significant is done to erode the size of the stealth tax payout to the gummint.
Perry
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby Perry » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:20 pm

Oh, Bruce . . .

We may've passed the point of peak-clever, but we're not yet even close to reaching peak-stupid.
Perry
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: I call Bullshirt! (23 Jul, 2021)

Postby phill » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:41 pm

so now we are following ( albeit with an almost healthy lag ) the uk and usa ?
( ,,,,,,,, ....... A E I O U use em sparingly theres probably not enough )

i might live and eat in a sewer .. but hey look how many of these shiny things i have got
User avatar
phill
 
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Next

Return to Today's column

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

cron