Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

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Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:47 am

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2021/0823.shtml

Everything we do in life carries a degree of risk... so why should being vaccinated against CV19 be any different?

The most important thing we do in life is manage the multitude of risks we must deal with on a daily, weekly or even life-time basis.

How ironic it would be if the CV19 mRNA vaccines ended up creating more problems than they solved, perhaps a year ten down the road?

With my motto of Carpe Diem firmly in mind, I have no problems opting for the vaccine option but what about younger people who have their whole lives ahead of them. Should they place their faith in their own body's immune system, or in the hands of the scientists that developed these revolutionary vaccines in record time without the luxury of extended testing over more than a few short months?

And would a mass-culling event be the very thing the planet needs right now anyway? :-)
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby Dio Gratia » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:10 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/20/us/politics/fda-pfizer-covid-vaccine-full-approval.html

Aug. 20, 2021

The Food and Drug Administration is pushing to approve Pfizer-BioNTech’s two-dose Covid-19 vaccine on Monday, further expediting an earlier timeline for licensing the shot, according to people familiar with the agency’s planning.

Regulators were working to finish the process by Friday but were still working through a substantial amount of paperwork and negotiation with the company. The people familiar with the planning, who were not authorized to speak publicly about it, cautioned that the approval might slide beyond Monday if some components of the review need more time.

An F.D.A. spokeswoman declined to comment.

The agency had recently set an unofficial deadline for approval of around Labor Day.

The approval is expected to pave the way for a series of vaccination requirements by public and private organizations who were awaiting final regulatory action before putting in effect mandates. Federal and state health officials are also hoping that an approved vaccine will draw interest from some Americans who have been hesitant to take one that was only authorized for emergency use, a phenomenon suggested by recent polling.


This isn't the first FDA approved messenger RNA vaccine, the first in 2018. The reactogenicity of mRNA vaccines is reported to be similar to regular vaccines (a fifty-cent word meaning the ability of a vaccine to cause adverse reactions).

The U.S. Labor Day pays tribute to American workers on Monday the 6th of September this year. The main stream media in the U.S. has been exhorting the FDA to expedite full approval all year going so far as to encourage the FDA work weekends, apparently paying tribute to the FDA workers after their paperwork labors are complete. The issue with that being the pipeline for drug approvals is never ending.

The Moderna application for their vaccine's full FDA approval is awaiting completion of test data submission purportedly and wouldn't lag by much.

Part of the approval process would involve reviewing test submissions to manage risk. You could note the New Zealand government has already managed the risk of the Pfizer vaccine on our behalf. In all likelihood the appropriate ministry applying better methodology for examining concerns than the public-at-large.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5906799/ mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology.
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby GSVNoFixedAbode » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:24 am

All vaccines carry a level of risk - always have and always will, given the variation of each person's unique physiology. The key is, as mentioned. managing that risk.

That's what really ticks me off regards the whole vaccine debate: those who state they are 'perfectly safe' are just as wrong as those who state 'they'll kill everyone'. A (usually very very) small percentage of people will have an adverse reaction of some kind, either immediately or much later. Overall a vaccine will be good for the population at large but not necessarily for a particular individual.

The current Covid vaccine is no different. It was already in development and quickly 'tuned' for Covid-19, and the process of checking and approval was accelerated. But it must be one of the most well-studied implementations of a vaccine in decades! I'm waiting for my #2 jab later this week, and accept the statistically small risk, knowing that the alternative could be a life-threatening illness, and/or long-term health issues.
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby Perry » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:21 am

The important phase is, "acceptable risk."

All else is opportunism, at best.
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby hagfish » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:35 am

Far from taking a year, the actual 'development' work for the Pfizer vaccine took only a few hours. The testing - quite necessarily - took a long time, but the spadework was already done.

Experimental therapies that might be offered during palliative care still have to do 'not much' harm. Any medical intervention proposed - indeed - mandated, for an entire, mostly healthy population has to pass a very high test. Fluoride and supplemental folic acid seem to meet this test. The raft of Covid vaccines out there seem to be quite promising, especially compared with the risks associated with plague they seek to avert. But the risks need to be exceptionally low.

I get that the plantation owners want us to open up, but I'm dubious about including economic risks/outcomes in an appraisal of a vaccine. Yes, I've had my first jab, but it wasn't so that some top-hat wearer can extract the value of my labour. And how about - when international bubbles open again - anyone with a positive Day-3 Covid test has to do three months in prison? People might think twice about coming, and take extra precautions if they do. Would this be so bad? At the moment, it's, "whoops, sorry" coof coof

As far as 'CO2 saved per capita' goes, you can't get much better bang for buck than Americans. They've been very sanguine about reducing their carbon footprint, and we thank them for their sacrifice. The rest of us need to get to grips with 'de-growth'. This isn't something we will contemplate willingly, so it will have to be 'the other way'. If Covid has taught us anything, it's that a global plague ain't gonna do it.
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby GCSBIntercepts » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:24 pm

How many of you here have actually designed, made, and tested a vaccine?

None of you - as far as I know. And I know a bit.

This is not a vaccine. It doesn't meet the legal definition of one.

In Melbourne recently there was a mass vaccination event of 20,000 children. Two of them died.
Would you take that risk with your children?

Wait till you see the videos of the dead people piling up at vaccination centres.
Wait till you see the clots removed from aortas, brains, and other organs.
Wait till you see the gag orders on medical personnel.

Wait till you see what happened at an Auckland fertility clinic with 4 of their young egg donors after receiving Pfizer.
They are sterile. No more oocytes.

Wait till you see patients coming out of remission with their cancers from immunological drift induced by the vaccine.
Wait till you see the miscarriage rates.

Just sitting back watching, and waiting till the general public works out they have been bunnied.


No smarty pants - go get your vaccines! We need more of you vaccinated!!!! :D
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby cjet » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:12 am

Think of it this way
Billionaires walking across the planet
In their Lear jets
Stepping on the skulls of old people
Squashing the skulls of law vit D persons
Pulverising the cranial cavities of comorbidity

To travel again the vaccine let’s billionaires dance
Flitting the globe with minimal pressure on others
The vaccination is for billionaires travel plans
And this extreme of wealth matches 3 billion with just one meal per day

This one meal per day is not at 35,000 feet
And for most of the 3/8 of the population is is not enough to
Enough for the refueling of the jet

So a billionaire injecting (thanks bill Gates)
Or Taliban injecting for population numbers
The religious creed of ‘go forth and multiply’
That worked in the 7th century

But go forth and get Taiwan does not
Common law says property rights are protected
Just as taliban go forth and take a hand
Cruel and unusual or lack of resources

Israel vaccinated its population but not Pakistani.
Then had an open boarder with palisine
So that the dishes could be cleared away after the party
The hangover is equity and hubris
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby roygbiv » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:21 am

Its just a case of fear of the unknown. One very noticeable about our government and that is they are listening and acting on scientific advice. Simple, but is working.Other governments listen more to economic advisers and look where they are.
Yes, there is risk, always will be about taking a new vaccine developed especially for COVID. But, there is risk with everything. I would take the risk, may regret it later but I doubt it. Perhaps there are many opinions about the vaccines on social media made by badly informed or educated people, or misinformation (see above)
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby Perry » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:53 am

Anyone have news about what's happening in Britain, with their change of stance on SARS COV 2?

From someone on the ground, over there. Not from the NZ gummint propaganda mudstream media!
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Re: Yes, we are taking a risk (23 Aug, 2021)

Postby aardvark_admin » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:15 am

From what I've heard, infection rates are still rising (although still not as high as a while back) but the number of deaths (whilst also rising) is not doing so at a rate that tracks the infection rate.

ie: it's still not good but it's not as not good as it was. The vaccination program seems to be bluntening the effect of the virus but people are still getting sick and people are still dying.

I watched an interesting video the other day from a doctor who said that the mRNA vaccines only result in an antibody response to ONE of the proteins found on the CV19 virus and that tests have shown that those who are vaccinated and then exposed to the virus become significantly more "immunised" because their bodies actually then recognise and generate an antibody response to *all* the proteins on the virus. If this is true then perhaps the best thing an immunised person can do is be exposed to the virus to further build their immunity and (more importantly) broaden the scope of that immunity such that if the protein the mRNA vaccine relies on disappears in a future mutant, they will still likely have high levels of immunity -- whereas those who haven't been exposed to the real virus will have none.
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