NZ Government to provide free kevlar vests? (30 May, 2022)

[aardvark_admin]

This column is archived at: https://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2022/0530.shtml

Is funding the installation of anti-ram-raid devices really the best the government can do to address the current proliferation of lawlessness?

Surely we'd be better off addressing and treating the root causes of this offending rather than simply providing a mop and a bucket to clean up the mess later?

And how about the explosion in firearms-related violence North of the Bombays? Are we likely to see vulnerable households getting a box of bullet-proof vests in the mail so that the government can crow about how effectively it has dealt with this problem?

Surely we deserve better governance than this.

[GSVNoFixedAbode]

Ram-raids: Time to come down like a tonne of bricks on the youth offenders with huge gobs of Community Service.

As for guns, two things: 1) more policing of the Gangs, after the huge uptick in Aussie gang members exiled back to NZ & bringing that lifestyle with them; 2) this may sound a little draconian so perhaps put a 5 year expiry on it but change gun legislation to allow for confiscation of all weapons at an address if anyone residing there has been deemed unfit to hold a gun licence. Effectively disarm the Gangs. And again, beef up the police resources to enforce this.

You can't just say "the ban on semi-automatic guns was wrong and ineffective because there are more current shootings". It's more a case of we have the legislation, it just needs to be enforced. Hard.

[aardvark_admin]

You can't just say "the ban on semi-automatic guns was wrong and ineffective because there are more current shootings". It's more a case of we have the legislation, it just needs to be enforced. Hard.

But that was *always* the case.

Remember, the Mosque incident was only possible because police failed to do the mandated background checks that are part of being granted a firearms license.

Penalising the masses of law-abiding, responsible recreational shooters simply because police dropped the ball is an outrageous situation -- especially now that (as predicted) when semi-autos are made illegal, only the criminals will have/use them.

[hagfish]

First, we'd have to agree on the what the 'root cause' is, and then on how to 'treat' it. Possible solutions range from a UBI and drug-legalisation, to deathcamps. Plenty of scope for debate.

You might think crime involving semi-automatic weapons is bad in our timeline, but you should check out the timelines where they just let rip, Mayhem! Even over there, 'personal defence' is not a valid reason for getting a firearms license. They have some sense.

And I think we do get the government we deserve.

[Geoffm]

... this may sound a little draconian so perhaps put a 5 year expiry on it but change gun legislation to allow for confiscation of all weapons at an address if anyone residing there has been deemed unfit to hold a gun licence. Effectively disarm the Gangs. And again, beef up the police resources to enforce this.

You can't just say "the ban on semi-automatic guns was wrong and ineffective because there are more current shootings". It's more a case of we have the legislation, it just needs to be enforced. Hard.

This is already the case. If you have someone undesirable or unfit at your place, you have to keep your guns elsewhere. I looked after a couple of guns for a few months for a family friend when his son got in trouble and was on bail at that address. It doesn’t matter they are locked up in a safe and that person doesn’t have access.
This only applies to fire arms license holders of course. The police need a warrant to search or enter a gang house, but if you have a license holder, they have 24hr access whenever they want, with no warrant required. You also have to provide any info they want, and there is not right to remain silent. Gang members of course still have that right.

[phord]

looted for their booze and ciggies,

It's puzzling why these small dairy shops continue selling booze and cigarettes when it makes them targets.
Perhaps the reason is that the big profit from selling these goods is worth the hassle of repeated break ins.

[aardvark_admin]

Yes, I believe that ciggies are a *huge* percentage of their actual profit. I guess it also brings people in who then also buy a can of soft-drink and a choc-bar while they're there, further boosting the bottom line.

[GSVNoFixedAbode]

...This is already the case. If you have someone undesirable or unfit at your place, you have to keep your guns elsewhere. ...

Ok, good to know. So it really does come down to having the resources and will (and accept consequential results) to enforce the law!

[Perry]

First, we'd have to agree on the what the 'root cause' is, and then on how to 'treat' it.

I'm all ears.

Let's start with forumites' views on the "root cause."

Perhaps with date / timeline links of whatever sort?

A couple of things to stimulate discussion. (if any)

The Tytler Cycle

Karl Popper's Paradox of Tolerance

[smellywelshgit]

Ram Raids - How about forcing the parents of under 12's to help repair the damage or do something else useful to society, like pick up rubbish. Might persuade them to look after and discipline their kids.