Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby goosemoose » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:48 am

Nah the media loves these stories, anything WX related then they can cross live endlessly, doesn't matter where the reporter is.

Anyways a massive space weather event will put a stop to all that facebooking and twattering.

Science is run by management and accountants now so it's no surprise they want to extract cash from it. This is the main reason I don't participate in surveys etc. Sure I'll tell them my going rates per question but at that stage they don't seem as keen. If I'm legally obliged ie the census and the Dept of Stats things I've had to fill out, they will get the barest minimum of info but not before I send them a letter telling them that in this age information is a tradable commodity so why can't they pay me as per govt policy. Obviously I don't get the answer I want.

latewings wrote:And those of us who need weather data for flying, the state decided to make us pay for it, but to charge the largest users of weather data (marine users) is verboten as there are too many voters in that group.

What you fliers want to do is crash more in WX related events. :lol: In the following investigation say you couldn't afford the forecast. I suspect why the marine users get it for free is pound for pound there are more buffoons there than in aviation.
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby Anaru » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:48 am

Kiwiiano wrote:Oh Anaru, you haven't been listening to the Moon Man again have you?


Nah, these are variables known to have some correlation with earthquakes, while correlation isn't causation I think efforts are progressing to a point where we will soon know more about the "recipe" that all of these things mix into to create the conditions for an earthquake to occur. The moon causes known tidal effects on the earths crust, enough to influence but not cause, while solar storms stress the earths magnetic field and it's known that earthquakes have a visible effect on the field either preceding or during.

If you're ever bored, plot the epicentre and depth of every earthquake in NZ into a KML layer and import it into Google Earth and draw lines between all of them. Oddly enough they intersect in sprite or star like formations over things like volcanoes and geothermal fields.
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:52 am

How does a "full moon" influence its gravitational effects?

Whether it's full or just a thin crescent, the moon is actually still there exhibiting the same effect because of its unchanged mass. The "fullness" of the moon is simply a function of the way its different position in orbit relative to the earth and sun produces a greater area of illumination.
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby Anaru » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:26 pm

aardvark_admin wrote:How does a "full moon" influence its gravitational effects?

Whether it's full or just a thin crescent, the moon is actually still there exhibiting the same effect because of its unchanged mass. The "fullness" of the moon is simply a function of the way its different position in orbit relative to the earth and sun produces a greater area of illumination.


The tides on Earth are mostly generated by the intensity of the Moon’s gravitational pull from one side of the Earth to the other. The moon’s gravity can cause small ebbs and flows in the continents called land tides or solid Earth tides. These are greatest during the full and new moons because the sun and moon are aligned on the same or opposite sides of the Earth.


Personally, I don't think that there is a direct correlation, however there is enough going on to make you seriously consider that it could contribute to events. Perigee probably has more relevance than the moons phase, but who knows, anecdotally - and if you look at it like a "recipe" - there is enough to (without claiming the earth is flat) make bold claims on the internet that there'll be a major earthquake in the next 72 hours :D

It's a bit like, when someone looses their temper, while the actual "fault" is in their personality so to speak by way of their emotional intelligence and ability to deal with stress and so on, if you know someone is under stress at work, has a bit of a temper and then you "pick" on them, they're going to snap. Was it you picking on them, the stress at work or their lack of emotional intelligence that caused the "snap" or violent outburst?
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby Screw » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:29 pm

I agree Bruce. The Moon has a very small effect in the Earth's continental crust. It is so small as to be almost un-definable.

There are a lot of fringe sites out there that propose such divinations but can't really prove a correlation to what they say. Earthquakes happen when a fault builds up stored energy, then releases it suddenly.
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:34 pm

One thing I have noticed is that quakes usually happen in 2's or 3's within a period of a few weeks.

ie: if there's a big quake in one country, there's often another reasonable quake (or two) elsewhere in the world within a short period of time.

That's easy enough to understand though -- because as you relieve stress in one area it probably increases the stress in others.
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby Anaru » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:58 pm

Screw wrote:I agree Bruce. The Moon has a very small effect in the Earth's continental crust. It is so small as to be almost un-definable.

There are a lot of fringe sites out there that propose such divinations but can't really prove a correlation to what they say. Earthquakes happen when a fault builds up stored energy, then releases it suddenly.


I'm not going to "defend" anything but whoa! The moon has a massive effect on the Earth, we're talking deviations of up to 500+ mm at the equator, that's land movement! It has also been identified that there is a direct correlation between Earth tides and volcanic eruptions (http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/arc ... 05_28.html).

The moon (probably) doesn't cause earthquakes or anything else, but just like it moves millions upon millions of tonnes of water it also moves the earth, shifting that much weight around is going to shift the pressure. The plates are always moving, so it's never going to be an "exact" science, measuring pressure and where the "snags" are between two plates within any real accuracy is probably impossible. Earth tides also effect the magnetic field itself, so it's reasonable to suggest that everything is part of the ingredients - no one knows the recipe, yet.

I just think it's unfortunate that all of this gets dismissed because of people like Ken Ring who instead of being more curious than certain, try to make predictions out of it - even more unfortunate the media misconstrue that in a light which makes it unpopular, in turn it makes it difficult to get funding in todays world and at the cost of humanities knowledge. Then again in his defence, if the same critique were applied to weather forecasters (which is what he is I suppose) we'd also be rubbishing the science around that too. "Oh so you think that just because there are clouds in the sky it's going to rain? It's cloudy now, why isn't it raining?".
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby rossnixon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm

I go here several times per week (there is actually a new video each night).
Suspicious0bservers - includes earth and space weather, earthquake prediction, climate change, a bit of electric universe stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns3DOyX ... 5nP2xzFTWQ
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby goosemoose » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:41 pm

Anaru wrote:"Oh so you think that just because there are clouds in the sky it's going to rain? It's cloudy now, why isn't it raining?".

No I think thats more down to what mood the Rain Fairy is in with Cloud Fairy. Everyone know it's all down to the Fairies. Just ask Ring. :lol:
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Re: Is the sky falling? Space weather (13 June, 2014)

Postby Screw » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:05 pm

Anaru wrote:I'm not going to "defend" anything but whoa! The moon has a massive effect on the Earth, we're talking deviations of up to 500+ mm at the equator, that's land movement! It has also been identified that there is a direct correlation between Earth tides and volcanic eruptions (http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/arc ... 05_28.html).

The moon (probably) doesn't cause earthquakes or anything else, but just like it moves millions upon millions of tonnes of water it also moves the earth, shifting that much weight around is going to shift the pressure. The plates are always moving, so it's never going to be an "exact" science, measuring pressure and where the "snags" are between two plates within any real accuracy is probably impossible. Earth tides also effect the magnetic field itself, so it's reasonable to suggest that everything is part of the ingredients - no one knows the recipe, yet.

I just think it's unfortunate that all of this gets dismissed because of people like Ken Ring who instead of being more curious than certain, try to make predictions out of it - even more unfortunate the media misconstrue that in a light which makes it unpopular, in turn it makes it difficult to get funding in todays world and at the cost of humanities knowledge. Then again in his defence, if the same critique were applied to weather forecasters (which is what he is I suppose) we'd also be rubbishing the science around that too. "Oh so you think that just because there are clouds in the sky it's going to rain? It's cloudy now, why isn't it raining?".


Your comments are fair enough Anaru and I'm not disputing them in any way. This planet could well be described as 'Living' and is constantly changing over time. The Moon and Sun both have an influence over the earth, so there is probably a lot in what you say.
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