Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby DigiDog » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:27 am

rossnixon wrote:There's nothing silly about the Conservative Party.

Image

I beg to disagree, Ross.
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby BruceNZ » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:47 am

aardvark_admin wrote:It's a shame that our politicians are so fearful of true democracy that they won't allow binding referendums on key issues such as the sale of assets -- that would significantly reduce the granularity of our "democracy".

Do you blame them? Given the low level of knowledge of civics and economics in this country a representative democracy is probably a better option. Case in point: how many people do you know that can explain the difference between 'debt' and 'deficit'?
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:22 pm

Ah... but don't people have a right to make their own mistakes in a democracy?

Nobody said democracy was perfect and there are huge potential problems -- but it's better than the alternatives (unless you look at Singapore) :-)
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby goosemoose » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Hey Digidog that cartoon sums it up brilliantly :lol: :lol:.

Unfortunately it's now govt for the 1% by the masses. Laws and access to politicians can be bought by corporates and those with $$ but not the ordinary Joe. It's now just another business and unfortunately the majority don't have the money to play. This could be me with my conspiracy theory hat on, but have you noticed how around the world police forces are becoming more and more military, they now fight wars, wars on drugs, child abuse, speeding etc etc and are getting military tactics and weapons. It seems to me, again with my conspiracy theory hat, on that a more military styled police force will be ready to fight the war for "democracy" when the revolution comes. The revolution being my catch all for general social unrest and displays of unhappiness with the current state of affairs.
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:47 pm

DigiDog wrote:
rossnixon wrote:There's nothing silly about the Conservative Party.

Image

I beg to disagree, Ross.


There are plenty more where that came from
http://nint3ndoug.tumblr.com/post/89311512597
http://nint3ndoug.tumblr.com/post/89311479132

He just seems to have a knack for awkward overly posed photos.
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby Screw » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:06 pm

aardvark_admin wrote:Bruce, the granularity of our democracy (ie: we get one vote every three years and that's not to select policies, just parties) means that JK didn't really have the mandate he claimed with respect to the power co sales.


I agree with the other Bruce here Bruce. The majority did vote for sell-offs, they may have disagreed with that particular policy but still voted for the Gnats all the same.

The problem is that most workers in NZ are low paid and by the time they get home physically and mentally drained they are not in a particular mood to get involved with politics. They are more motivated by surviving for another week. That is why your proxy won't work because it implies that people need to be fully involved in politics and people aren't.

We have been steadily moving toward Fascism over the thirty years and I see that there won't be any change in the near future.
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:16 pm

Well I'm not so sure I agree with you Screw.

Enough Kiwis were politically aciive enough to vote overwhelmingly against the asset sales in the 2013 referendum on the matter.

920,000 opposed the sales, versus just 443,000 who supported them -- a 45% turnout isn't too bad for a postal ballot and the result cleary proves that JK's mandate had been revoked by the citizens of the nation -- regardless of what he might claim.

If Recoverable Proxy was in effect, the people of the nation would have voted down the government and effectively exercised its right to veto.

Even a binding referendum would have done the job -- but alas, it was not to be.

JK thumbed his nose at the people he is elected to *serve*. Do that in the private sector and you'd be out on your ear by lunchtime :-)
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby goosemoose » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:27 pm

aardvark_admin wrote:Enough Kiwis were politically aciive enough to vote overwhelmingly against the asset sales in the 2013 referendum on the matter.

And some people like me threw the thing in the rubbish. Complete waste of my time, do not insult me be sending me this frivolous nonsense. Non-binding and the result was going to be ignored anyway. Referenda should be done away with here, they're just for either massaging politicians egos or political points scoring and I don't want to be involved these idiots games - which is what I think they are.
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby DigiDog » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:47 pm

goosemoose wrote:And some people like me threw the thing in the rubbish. Complete waste of my time, do not insult me be sending me this frivolous nonsense. Non-binding and the result was going to be ignored anyway.

It's that sort of apathy which allowed Key to crow that because 55% of kiwis didn't even bother to vote they somehow supported asset sales. While the result was non-binding, I'm glad that almost half the country took the time to voice their opinions on the matter.

goosemoose wrote:Referenda should be done away with...

Surely a better idea would be to make them binding as they do in Switzerland. Then we'd all enjoy a more democratic society.
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Re: Political Friday: TPPA versus NZ (20 Jun, 2014)

Postby goosemoose » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:28 pm

DigiDog wrote:It's that sort of apathy which allowed Key to crow that because 55% of kiwis didn't even bother to vote they somehow supported asset sales. While the result was non-binding, I'm glad that almost half the country took the time to voice their opinions on the matter.

Not apathy Dog, just annoyance. Similar to how annoyed you'd be if I invited you round to my house for a dress as a robot party, BYO of course and when you get there I say "No sorry I know you got an invite but you're not allowed in" :o Key would've crowed anyway even if 100% had voted he would've had a smarmy way out. Now if I could express my displeasure with asset sales and register my vote against them by punching my local national MP in noggin then I would've been there in a shot!
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