Give me a break!

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Re: Give me a break!

Postby aardvark_admin » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:04 pm

No... if he'd been lawfully minding his own business and posing no threat to other innocent, law-abiding members of society and a policeman had shot him *that* would have been an execution. He *chose* to break the law, to endanger people and to try and steal a vehicle that would have raised the threat level to the public to an even higher level. It was all *HIS* choice.

I bet he was the kind of person who'd say it was someone else's fault if he burned his hand by deliberately holding it over a roaring flame.

One of the first and most important lessons people must learn is that you are responsible for your own decisions -- don't blame others when you screw up.
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby phill » Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:49 pm

im not taking anything away from his stupidity or law breaking
he should have been arrested and the key thrown away
have we got to the point where we accept executing someone because of something they might do
then we have fully achieved the title of texas sister country
we also dont pay the police to be judge jury and executioner .. cowards are not suitable for that
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby Jimmy » Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:04 pm

On the limited facts we currently have, I'm with Bruce on this one. 22 Years old is a grown man, not a kid. And if he was going berserk and deliberately ramming vehicles with another vehicle then I suspect he probably wasn't taserable (either too far away or inside a vehicle), and it's not unreasonable that the police present might have thought he was posing an immediate threat to the lives of others. So on the face of it, it looks like the cops probably responded correctly. Also, even though it turns out he wasn't armed, the cops might have reasonably thought he was - and making a split-second decision with a nutter running amok and lives at risk isn't the easiest thing to do.

I don't think it was remotely an execution. That would be the case if they shot him in cold blood when he wasn't doing anything to put others at risk.

But the reported facts are thin, and I wasn't there. The investigations into fatal police shootings actually tend to be relatively thorough. So I'm content for the investigation to gather all the evidence available and come to a conclusion. I might or might not question that conclusion, should I be interested enough to look at it, but not until I had read the report and had a better picture of what actually happened.
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby Jimmy » Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:11 pm

phill wrote:have we got to the point where we accept executing someone because of something they might do


Depends on your definition of "execute" and on the circumstances.

If I reasonably believe they "might" imminently kill me or someone else (e.g., because they are trying to ram me with a car, or running at me with a bloody axe screaming "I'm going to kill you") then I'm OK with them being shot to stop them. Particularly if there isn't a workable alternative.

If they are peaceably walking down a street minding their own business, but someone suspects they "might" rob a bank next week, then obviously they shouldn't just be gunned down in cold blood to ensure they don't.
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby phill » Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:15 pm

Jimmy wrote:
phill wrote:have we got to the point where we accept executing someone because of something they might do




If I reasonably believe they "might" imminently kill me or someone else (e.g., because they are trying to ram me with a car,) then I'm OK with them being shot to stop them. Particularly if there isn't a workable alternative.

.


but that wasn't what happened
by reports so far the police car he rammed was empty
at no point could any reasonable say their life was in danger
making up bs to try to justify executing him is what the police and the police protection squad will do
it doesn't make it right or justified though
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:45 am

At the time he was shot, he was out of the car, on foot and didn't have a weapon. How was he an imminent threat to justify the use of deadly force?
It doesn't matter what he had done previously or that he was known to kick puppies or whatever. What matters is at the time he was shot did he pose an immediate danger to other people and the use of deadly force was the only viable option to stop him without further endangering others.
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby aardvark_admin » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:50 am

I think police are (rightly) empowered to use lethal force to stop an offender from escaping if they believe that he may endanger lives during the process.

Since he clearly demonstrated a willingness to use a vehicle as a weapon and was trying to carjack another vehicle, it seems that the requirements for the use of lethal force were met.

As I said earlier... what would you be saying if the police didn't shoot him and he stole another car at the scene then made off at speed -- and perhaps ran down a couple of kids crossing the road 1Km away. At least this way the only fatality was the guy who had a choice about it.
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Re: Give me a break!

Postby phill » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:58 am

we dont have the death penalty here

allowing the police to do it without the most pressing reason isn't showing the disdain for taking human life we have as a national policy
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